Prince Andrew no surprise

[Pixxie7]

No surprise that the met have stopped. Their investigation into PA.

@SpindleWhirl

Many a parent has stood by their child she is no different in that respect, what do you expect her to do ?

The Queen is different, though - she's the Head of State, Head of the Church of England, Defender of the Faith, Head of the Commonwealth, monarch of millions of loyal subjects, anointed and appointed by God, yada yada.

If she really expects her subjects to go along with the above belief system, then she has a responsibility to set an impeccable example. She can't have it both ways.

I am really disappointed in her lately. I know she's old, but she's either up for the job of being Head of State etc etc, or she's not.

And right now, it's not looking great.

What do you propose she do?

Mumsnetters also seem to WANT to have him declared innocent and defensive of the royal family
God forbid those who stand for the rights of women over the royal family’s reputation

@lnsufficientFuns

He’s disgusting The met are disgusting The queen is disgusting

I hate them all.
I hate this country.

Are you having a bad day by any chance 😆 bit OTT!?

SpindleWhirl Mon 11-Oct-21 06:55:31

quote
Mybalconyiscracking

He is an arse, but the age of consent in this country is 16 and she was older, so he does not appear to have committed a crime under British law. What do you want the Met to do?
I certainly think there are better things for them to be getting on with. end quote

On every thread about Andrew this gets said.

The point is that Virginia Roberts Giuffre was trafficked.

Ghislaine Maxwell, good friend of Andrew, is finally up in court on trafficking charges next month in New York. She may well sing like a canary about the involvement of others, to reduce her sentence.

But how would privileged, entitled Andrew know that she was trafficked? She seems to be smiling naturally in that photo. And before everyone jumps all over me, I used to have my car washed once a month outside Homebase - then one day at least a year later the car wash was gone and there was a police notice saying closed under investigation for modern slavery. I was completely gobsmacked, I had absolutely no idea. If I'm honest, it just didn't occur to me it could happen in my neighbourhood which is an ordinary not posh one. So how would PA know, and if the Met, especially in these times watched very closely, say they have no evidence and have stopped their investigation, they must have more reason than just that PA is royalty.

@midsummabreak

Mumsnetters also seem to WANT to have him declared innocent and defensive of the royal family God forbid those who stand for the rights of women over the royal family’s reputation

No, we just don't want a witch hunt! Havn't we already had enough police foul ups such as the Cliff Richard fiasco. How about we deal with the facts of the matter and remember the long legal tradition of innocent until proved guilty.

Some people also take the view that if something looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck.

Absolutely this. I also think that rich, powerful, white men almost never get their comeuppance.

I would not apply that standard were I on a jury, as "innocent until proven guilty" applies in court. That doesn't have to apply in my opinions of people in the public eye tho.

Well yes, @ChurchofLatterDayPaints, I feel the supposed 'unifying force' of the monarchy and the royal family has slipped away these past two years, and what's left is a very unedifying explosion of poor judgement, entitlement, and the sound of money slushing around.

The Sovereign Grant going up at the same time that Brenda is reportedly footing Andrew's legal bills (reputed to be £millions) just isn't a good look.

What is the monarchy offering for the money, and for our loyalty to a belief system where she is Head of the Church and Head of State? If the monarchy and royal family are the cause of divisiveness, splitting the populace, that's a big, big problem.

The 'optics' of this are bloody appalling and I'm amazed that the situation has been allowed to deteriorate to this degree.

And like @LaetitiaASD, too right I judge them harshly. It's an absolute horror show, in which our Head of State is embroiled.

Using the term ‘witch hunt’ does nothing for your case to defend PA

It’s such a tired old misogynistic term used to publicly demean women as though hysterical for daring to stand and defend, but there are two sides to this story and women will not be silenced

No, we just don't want a witch hunt! Havn't we already had enough police foul ups such as the Cliff Richard fiasco. How about we deal with the facts of the matter and remember the long legal tradition of innocent until proved guilty.

We've also had way too many cover-ups. How about we look at what else PA has been up to since the Falklands and why he is allowed to get away with it? And how about we also look at why there is apparently no other human being in the UK who can run the Met in a way that protects women?

exDP said he met him once when drinking in a private member’s bar. He said he seemed very down to
Earth and normal which is nice to hear about a member of the Royal Family. He did sound like a really nice guy. Obviously my opinion has changed since all this has come out about him and on second thoughts it does seem extremely reckless for someone like him to be out drinking anywhere even vaguely public and talking to the likes of my ex 😆. I suppose there are bad men everywhere and he is one of them, even if he doesn’t realise it. So many don’t.

the facts of the matter @user1497207191 are that often victims of rape do not physically resist and freeze in the situation and there are two sides to this case

@midsummabreak

the facts of the matter *@user1497207191* are that often victims of rape do not physically resist and freeze in the situation and there are two sides to this case

Generalities aren't "evidence" in court. What matters is the evidence and facts of THIS case, not other peoples', not generalities or bias of "rich, powerful, white men". It's that kind of bias that caused the Cliff Richard fiasco. You really can't go around ruining the lives of random "rich, powerful, white men" because a few of them have broken the law. You have to get the right people prosecuted for the specific crimes they committed. And to do that, you need evidence, not hearsay, not generalities, not statistics.

@ALittleBitWorrriedNow

exDP said he met him once when drinking in a private member’s bar. He said he seemed very down to Earth and normal which is nice to hear about a member of the Royal Family. He did sound like a really nice guy. Obviously my opinion has changed since all this has come out about him and on second thoughts it does seem extremely reckless for someone like him to be out drinking anywhere even vaguely public and talking to the likes of my ex 😆. I suppose there are bad men everywhere and he is one of them, even if he doesn’t realise it. So many don’t.

As a counter, my DH has also had dealings with PA during his (DH’s) time in the military. He said PA was rude, obnoxious and a downright pain in the arse with regards to his demands and very few of DH’s military friends who came into contact with PA have a nice thing to say about him.

PA chose to ‘ ruin his life’ by his own choice @user1497207191

Ditto, @CaveMum. I've met naval personnel who had to endure Andrew's behaviour on the royal yacht Britannia. No-one has a good word to say about him. Anne was thought well of, though.

• He’s disgusting The met are disgusting The queen is disgusting

I hate them all.
I hate this country.*

This is why proof and evidence is key in court. So many people are just so unreasonable.

@midsummabreak

the facts of the matter *@user1497207191* are that often victims of rape do not physically resist and freeze in the situation and there are two sides to this case

That's the point - there are two sides to every case, and PA, whom I think is a privileged rich twat, is still entitled not to be found guilty by social media. As for those saying people should have known Epstein was trafficking unwilling minors or near-minors because he was always surrounded by young girls, well, maybe he was, BUT consider Hugh Hefner who was also always surrounded by young girls at the playboy mansion, and they certainly weren't trafficked. The playboy empire stretched far and wide across continents with people desperate to be a part of it, even today you can find playboy branded clothing for women and very young girls. So how would JE's guests like PA, used to being fawned over because of their wealth and status, know otherwise?

I don't much like PA, or the situation described by VG who seems to have had a very tough start to life, but that doesn't automatically make him guilty, except in the court of public opinion.

(Charles) he didn't know they were sex offenders or do you have proof otherwise?

I can't prove that someone pinned Charles down and told him - not that it may have made any difference if they had - but the official IICSA report which criticised him made it pretty clear that he knew about Peter Ball

After all, what would have been the point in writing about "the monstrous wrongs done to you" and promising to "see off this ghastly man" if he carried on with his "dastardly tricks" if he didn't know what those incidents concerned?

A shame, really, to write about a victim who was later driven to suicide in those terms, but there you go - he'd exposed someone Charles considered a friend so he had to be monstered

@Mybalconyiscracking

He is an arse, but the age of consent in this country is 16 and she was older, so he does not appear to have committed a crime under British law. What do you want the Met to do? I certainly think there are better things for them to be getting on with.

If they were in the states at the time, American law will apply. If she was Under 18 at the time and he was more than 4 years older than she was at the time, it is a crime in quite a few states. Statutory rape.

Other people - like you - seem to actively want to give him every single chance possible to explain his way out of something which as far as I am concerned is pretty disgusting even assuming no charges are ever brought, let alone convictions.

Nope. My insistence that due process is followed has nothing to do with him. It is to do with the system that is there to protect us all. If you ever find yourself or a family member faced with accusations or charges, I’m sure you wouldn’t want the “walks like a duck” rule to be applied to you, whether it be by the legal system or the public at large.

Paul Gambaccini, Cliff Richards and hundreds of people with no public profile have had their lives severely impacted by the “walks like a duck” principle.

But the Royals are fair game for anyone who wants to trot out conspiracy theories about establishment cover up. Perpetuating those types of myth damages faith in the justice system and that’s no good for anyone, let alone for a woman who is wondering whether to take her story of rape or sexual abuse to the police.

Unlike many others here, I can separate the person from the situation and look objectively at the process.

If they were in the states at the time, American law will apply. If she was Under 18 at the time and he was more than 4 years older than she was at the time, it is a crime in quite a few states. Statutory rape.

In which case it’s up to the US judiciary to do something about it. Nothing more for the Met to do.