Prince Andrew no surprise

[Pixxie7]

No surprise that the met have stopped. Their investigation into PA.

History has shown a man accused of any form of sex crime has his life is ruined irrespective of any form of evidence.

A man accused of any kind of sex crime has his life ruined? Are you sure?
Does Trump’s life really seem ruined, what with still being elected president post-allegations. Joe Biden as well.
Or Cristiano Ronaldo. And Brett Kavanaugh. And Morgan Freeman. And Ben Affleck. And Michael Douglas. And Dustin Hoffman etc etc.

(I am not saying any of these specific men are guilty, but they have had varying accusations made against them and I think they’re doing just fine)

Again, can we stop using the word 'paedophile' inappropriately. A young person of 17 is too old for that to apply.

Bill Clinton is another 'ruined' multi-millionaire.

@LoislovesStewie

Again, can we stop using the word 'paedophile' inappropriately. A young person of 17 is too old for that to apply.

It's appropriate in terms of Epstein, as his youngest victims were only 12. This was in Paris, at a property that Andrew is alleged to have visited.

More is expected to emerge at Ghislaine Maxwell's trial next month.

Can people stop using the word "hearsay" to refer to what alleged victims are saying please?

Hearsay is when someone repeats what someone else has said. When the person is speaking about their own experience you may choose not to believe them (and believe the bloke who hangs out with paedos instead) but you can't call it hearsay.

You can simultaneously believe that Prince Andrew is a sleazy old man who exploited young women, AND that no crime has been committed. Or that there is no evidence of a crime having been committed

I agree completely and have said countless times that none of us can actually know exactly what went down

However my point's that they could have full taped evidence of outright criminality and a confession signed in blood on vellum, and I still don't believe there'd ever be the slightest chance of Andrew seeing the inside of a UK courtroom

Not when the RF can pull so many strings ...

Wiltshire90

Cressida Dick was at school with Ghislaine Maxwell

Social media has got this wrong. They were not at Oxford High School together. They both attended this school but at different times. Despite its name, the school caters for ages 4 upwards. Maxwell started her education there and left in 1970 or 1971 whereas Dick did not join the school until 1974.

Goodness Wiltshire90 that is a very specific thing to know about, especially as it does not appear on either of their wikipedia entries.

They were both at Balliol College Oxford at the same time.

@BoredZelda

If they were in the states at the time, American law will apply. If she was Under 18 at the time and he was more than 4 years older than she was at the time, it is a crime in quite a few states. Statutory rape.

In which case it’s up to the US judiciary to do something about it. Nothing more for the Met to do.

You have every right to believe PA and argue innocent until proven guilty. But I REALLY REALLY don't get why anyone would spend time downplaying accusations that someone [who has refused to distance himself from paedophile and sex-trafficking mates] is a sex offender themselves. Surely you have better things to do that defend him?

The Sovereign Grant going up at the same time that Brenda is reportedly footing Andrew's legal bills (reputed to be £millions) just isn't a good look.

There is absolutely no mechanism for the Queen to be able to use the Sovereign Grant to pay for private legal fees for her children.

The grant increases every year. This years increase was lower in percentage terms than previous years.

If you are going to use conspiracy theories, maybe stick to things that aren’t so easily disproved.

@LaetitiaASD

Can people stop using the word "hearsay" to refer to what alleged victims are saying please?

Hearsay is when someone repeats what someone else has said. When the person is speaking about their own experience you may choose not to believe them (and believe the bloke who hangs out with paedos instead) but you can't call it hearsay.

This!! People keep spouting such rubbish on this thread. Testifying about what happened to you is evidence.

The 'optics' of this are bloody appalling and I'm amazed that the situation has been allowed to deteriorate to this degree

Unfortunately, and despite the very expensive PR, that's what you get when the utterly tone deaf believe their position will protect them from everything, and where there's no will to rein in the family's worst excesses

She was trafficked. It was a crime.
The Royal Family are above the law. Of course, he was never going to be prosecuted.
And why have the media never really raised concerns about how Jimmy Saville was a close friend of Charles? No doubt he used that friendship to evade the law.

You have every right to believe PA and argue innocent until proven guilty. But I REALLY REALLY don't get why anyone would spend time downplaying accusations that someone [who has refused to distance himself from paedophile and sex-trafficking mates] is a sex offender themselves. Surely you have better things to do that defend him?

I’ll say it again for the folk at the back who seem incapable of understanding a basic principle. Defending the judiciary is not the same as defending the accused.

You will not find a single quote where I say I believe him. My opinion on his guilt or innocence is irrelevant. The system that is set up to protect us all has found there is insufficient evidence presented to bring the proposed specific charges.

If anyone has other evidence that can bring a charge they should present it. If anyone has evidence of a cover up, they should present it, but I really, really can’t understand why people would spend their time bringing the justice system into disrepute based on a gut feeling when all that will do is prevent other women from bringing charges against men who have sexually assaulted them. That is the real danger here and I’m surprised people here who claim to be on the side of sexual assault survivors can’t see that.

CBUK2K

You realise there is a huge industry for "sugar babies" where young ladies choose to trade their looks for gifts or allowances from older wealthy men? No one is making them do this, they have themselves singed up for a website so they can sit on a yacht in Saint-Tropez rather than putting 30 years of hard graft in to earning the money to do so.

What a really odd and totally irrelevant thing to post on this thread. Do you understand this case at all? Have you actually read what VR says herself about it? Are you not aware that SHE brought the case against PA? She did this because she was NOT happy to sleep with him or be trafficked by GM.

Was Saville a friend of Prince Charles or was he someone he knew in connection to charity work? I have no idea but I imagine Prince Charles knows lots of people but I doubt they are all friends.

My old boss went to prison for corruption in a public office but I am very law abiding. People could easily produce "evidence" of how I worked with him but it doesn't mean I did anything wrong. I didn't but I always thought he was a nasty man but again that didn't mean he was a criminal.

@BoredZelda because there is evidence she was trafficked and evidence that Andrew has lied.
But prosecuting Andrew would be an enormous deal and I suspect it would never happen unless he was caught in the act by multiple policemen.

@ancientgran Charles was friends with Jimmy Saville. Jimmy was invited for personal visits.
Working with someone, and choosing to be friends and socialise with someone is very different. Yes if you socialise with paedophiles, and there is Epstein as well, then at best you don't think these accusations or crimes are terribly serious, or at worst you are involved as well.

[quote julieca]@ancientgran Charles was friends with Jimmy Saville. Jimmy was invited for personal visits.
Working with someone, and choosing to be friends and socialise with someone is very different. Yes if you socialise with paedophiles, and there is Epstein as well, then at best you don't think these accusations or crimes are terribly serious, or at worst you are involved as well.[/quote]
What I was after was evidence they were friends. Just saying he was invited for personal visits doesn't really prove that. Was he invited to discuss charities or for information about what he did in hospitals or about abusing children? I don't suppose you know anymore than I do.

She was trafficked. It was a crime.
Super. You have evidence to support that he was involved, because the Met clearly don’t.

The Royal Family are above the law. Of course, he was never going to be prosecuted.

They are not. And the US have no reason not to bring charges if they have the evidence to do so.

And why have the media never really raised concerns about how Jimmy Saville was a close friend of Charles? No doubt he used that friendship to evade the law.

Short memory here. It was all over the press a decade ago.

CBUK2K

You seem to have posted several things here that indicate that you think that sometimes men are manipulated by dolly birds who are after their cash.

There is a very simple way for men to avoid this. They could ask themselves why an attractive and much younger woman wants to spend time with them. Either:

1. The young woman is taking them a ride for their cash or influence
2. Someone is coercing the young woman to take them a ride for their cash or influence

Either way, you would be a narcissist to believe that an attractive young woman is really interested in you. Men need to take responsibility for being naive idiots.

@CommonRoom

Wiltshire90

Cressida Dick was at school with Ghislaine Maxwell

Social media has got this wrong. They were not at Oxford High School together. They both attended this school but at different times. Despite its name, the school caters for ages 4 upwards. Maxwell started her education there and left in 1970 or 1971 whereas Dick did not join the school until 1974.

Goodness Wiltshire90 that is a very specific thing to know about, especially as it does not appear on either of their wikipedia entries.

They were both at Balliol College Oxford at the same time.

@CommonRoom - That was me, not Wiltshire90.

When I first saw this claim, I was intrigued and fact checked it, as I tend to with social media claims. It took about 5 minutes research to establish that Maxwell left Oxford High School at the age of 9, at which time Dick was attending the Dragon School.

I have now checked out the Balliol College claim and that also appears to be false. Dick graduated in 1982 as one of the first group of women to study at Balliol. Maxwell graduated in 1985, suggesting that she started in 1982. So, it appears they didn't overlap at Balliol at all.

because there is evidence she was trafficked and evidence that Andrew has lied.

Which in the eyes of the law doesn’t mean anything.

But prosecuting Andrew would be an enormous deal and I suspect it would never happen unless he was caught in the act by multiple policemen.

Not prosecuting him when there is evidence he did it would also be an enormous deal. That would leak eventually and the last thing the Met needs is another scandal about how they knew about sexual abuse and chose not to do anything about it.

Yes I do. He was invited as a personal friend. There are news stories. Charles even popped into Savilles holiday cottage and had tea with him. He is reported to have acted as a kind of marriage counsellor between Diana and Charles.
Charles was also close friends with Peter Ball another sex offender and even offered him accommodation.
There is a long history here of the RF colluding with sex offenders. So no wonder they support Andrew.

www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/jimmy-savile-manipulated-gullible-prince-25162410

www.theguardian.com/media/2012/oct/29/jimmy-savile-behaviour-prince-charles

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3265742/Jimmy-Savile-Prince-Charles-close-friendship-sex-abuse-bishop-Peter-Ball.html

CBUK2K hates women and will take any opportunity to point out how awful women are - they are a frequent poster on discussions around male violence and like to post about how women are worse than men in this regard with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

Don’t let them derail the thread.

Yes if you socialise with paedophiles, and there is Epstein as well, then at best you don't think these accusations or crimes are terribly serious, or at worst you are involved as well.

You have evidence that Prince Charles knew Saville was a paedophile?