Prince Andrew no surprise

[Pixxie7]

No surprise that the met have stopped. Their investigation into PA.

Do they have any evidence? All I've seen so far is a photo of a man and a smiling girl. There is no way to tell whether anything untoward happens.

The Met needs evidence (thankfully) not hearsay or Google .

@MintJulia according to mumsnet no , google can get you convicted
People on here need to read the law regarding wether he has been treated differently
If the usa had requested extradition or charged him and we refused then you could maybe say special considerations but my understanding is there is no such thing that has happened

I have posted this on other threads on this topic but I highly recommend that people listen to the breakdown of Prince Andrew’s interview by the Real Crime Profile team as part of their discussions around Jeffrey Epstein and his crimes.

The RCP team include an ex-FBI agent, Jim Clemente, and British criminal behaviour analyst Laura Richards who are experts in their fields.

Part 1 - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000459312687

Part 2 - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000459490380

There are a total of 17 podcast episodes on Jeffrey Epstein’s case, and over 300 others covering other cases which are well worth a listen.

The key point they make is that “if” he did have sex with VG, PA has committed a crime under US law because their trafficking laws state that if the victim was trafficked from or through the US then they have jurisdiction regardless of where in the world the actual crime took place. And let’s not forget VG states that offences also took place in the US itself.

@worriedatthemoment

They cannot prosecute without evidence etc especially a crime not committed here Your all moaning that he has been treated specially ,as it stands he hasn't as he hasn't been treated differently to anyone else Tbf he has been found guilty by many without a trial or any hard evidence seen by them What you have read in the paper isn't case evidence

As I understand it the following three things are proven so far -

PA has spent a lot of time hanging round paedophiles and / or sex traffickers.

PA has been photographed with young women who have accused PA's paedophile / sex trafficker mates AND PA.

PA has not distanced himself from paedophiles and / or sex traffickers.

At best PA has exceptionally poor judgement in terms of friends and even worse judgement in terms of whether he should stick by his friends. Given that, and the worst case scenario, he's not someone I'll lose any sleep over any shit he gets, even if he turns out to be innocent.

@Puzzledandpissedoff but he didn't know they were sex offenders or do you have proof otherwise ?
You could of worked or been friends with a sex offender without knowing , not all sex offenders are known

@LaetitiaASD
Yes hes a twat very much so but everyone is entitled to a fair trail

@LaetitiaASD why has he not distanced himself ? Did he know they were peodophiles and sex trafficers? Did not that not come out much later

@VladmirsPoutine

I honestly think even if they literally played a recording of PA admitting he did something wrong / illegal you'd still have people saying "Well hang on, wasn't she technically 17, and nobody forced her on the plane."

I often think that one of the reasons that rape convictions are so low in this country is that even if a case gets to court (rare), juries are stuffed with loads of 'Well hang on ...' people coming up with excuses for why a young woman is to blame for a man's appalling behaviour.

@VladmirsPoutine

I honestly think even if they literally played a recording of PA admitting he did something wrong / illegal you'd still have people saying "Well hang on, wasn't she technically 17, and nobody forced her on the plane."

No.

You can simultaneously believe that Prince Andrew is a sleazy old man who exploited young women, AND that no crime has been committed. Or that there is no evidence of a crime having been committed.

@MintJulia

Do they have any evidence? All I've seen so far is a photo of a man and a smiling girl. There is no way to tell whether anything untoward happens.

The Met needs evidence (thankfully) not hearsay or Google .

Hearsay - "the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law."

It is not hearsay - it is a direct account from an alleged victim. You can choose to disbelieve her and instead believe someone who who hangs around with paedophiles and sex traffickers, but you can't call it hearsay.

@SpindleWhirl juries have to consider all the evidence, we can only convict on evidence not a gut feeling , not on someones pure say so
Thats the only way we can Convict and even then its got wrong both ways
But you have to have proof and evidence its that simple

[quote worriedatthemoment]@LaetitiaASD why has he not distanced himself ? Did he know they were peodophiles and sex trafficers? Did not that not come out much later[/quote]
www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/a28339290/royal-family-prince-andrew-jeffrey-epstein-relationship/

"Since Epstein's arrest, the Duke of York has issued several statements regarding their friendship, and in November if 2019, he recorded an interview at Buckingham Palace about their relationship with journalist Emily Maitlis.

"Following enormous public criticism of their conversation, in which Andrew said he did not regret his friendship with Epstein, the Queen's son voluntarily stepped back from his royal duties."

no @julieca, no-one is saying that.

We are saying that every person, male, female, old, young, if accused of a crime, is innocent until proven guilty, ie. until the court sees some evidence, there is no way to tell whether PA committed a crime or not.

@LaetitiaASD why have the usa not prosecuted him then ? If they evidence they would surely
They have made other prosecutions in the case so why not this one ?

if he can prove that he didn't know this, or the accusers can't prove that he did know this, and we are talking 'prove beyond reasonable doubt here', then it will not be a crime.

Wrong way round there. It isn’t up to him to prove he didn’t know. The prosecution have to prove that he did.

@LaetitiaASD like I said a twat but I think I saw this interview thinking about it and it was a total car crash

@MintJulia

Do they have any evidence? All I've seen so far is a photo of a man and a smiling girl. There is no way to tell whether anything untoward happens.

The Met needs evidence (thankfully) not hearsay or Google .

Look again at that photo. It is not a “normal” photo of a Royal with a random member of the public that they claim they’ve never met.

It is a photo of a middle aged man with his crotch pressed against a teenage girl. There is an intimacy in that picture, that is not how you stand next to someone you are not very familiar with.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@LaetitiaASD why have the usa not prosecuted him then ? If they evidence they would surely
They have made other prosecutions in the case so why not this one ? [/quote]
I think they are trying to. Hence the papers which they are trying to serve to get him over there.

Irrespective of whether a crime was committed on British soil or not, a member of the British royal family is implicated and the way the little toerag has responded, has done real damage to the monarchy. I hope Charles and William are clear sighted enough to realise this and act on it when the decisions come into their hands.

@CaveMum you must of seen a different photo to me

[quote worriedatthemoment]@BordelDeMerde they are still available as they always had been and you had plenty of time before if you needed [/quote]
Really? Are there many countries where a UK citizen can decide to emigrate to without needing some sort of visa?

I'm an EU citizen so not affected.

@MintJulia

no *@julieca*, no-one is saying that.

We are saying that every person, male, female, old, young, if accused of a crime, is innocent until proven guilty, ie. until the court sees some evidence, there is no way to tell whether PA committed a crime or not.

We can also say that it appears HIGHLY LIKELY that the best case scenario is that he is a very sleazy man with an unfortunate habit of hanging around with paedophiles and sex-traffickers.

We can also choose to judge him pretty much as harshly as we would a convicted rapist based on our own moral views.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Puzzledandpissedoff but he didn't know they were sex offenders or do you have proof otherwise ?
You could of worked or been friends with a sex offender without knowing , not all sex offenders are known [/quote]
Look at Jeffrey Epstein in more detail (again I highly recommend the Real Crime Profile podcasts about him). There were red flags all over the place. Housekeepers, drivers, etc commented on how there were ALWAYS young girls around him, in his homes. His New York home was filled with photographs of him with the rich and famous, there is no way people were unaware of what was going on. They just chose to ignore it.

@BordelDeMerde I never said you never needed a visa but its possible still , same as someone from france can't just emigrate to the usa or australia either
Also now not the uk and like it or not a lot more people came to the uk than left the uk for eu countries
But this has nothing to do with this discussion

I think they are trying to. Hence the papers which they are trying to serve to get him over there.

I thought the papers he’d been served were for a civil suit brought by VG? He’s not been charged in the US.