If a police officer arrested you like Wayne Couzens?

[faithfulbird20]

Unfortunately it's taken losing Sarah to such a horrific crime to ask such a question. But what are we supposed to do. Someone arrests you off duty and you don't know whether u can trust them due to this case. What would you do? Ring 999 and say I'm being arrested by so and so but I don't know if he's on duty or if he's dodgy please can you log it somewhere. I just want to know if I'm definitely being taken to the police station I feel unsafe. There should be some sort of law. But what could you do? You've got no chance. No chance of safety. It's scary.

I was thinking this overnight. I think I’d refuse to get in a car unless there was a female chaperone.

Sadly there are a lot of corrupt cops about who aren't going to give two fucks about what your rights are and whether you object to being arrested by a male police officer.

I read this thread about a black teenage girl who was handcuffed for 'talking back'. I suspect it's a pretty common occurrence.

I feel like the police should introduce some way to immediately check

make it law that you get a minute or two to immediately use your phone or borrow theirs to tell someone, 'I am being arrested and taken to anytown police station, if I do not arrive there within 10/20/whatever minutes call 999'

and if that doesn't happen, that right not given before the cuffing stage you are legally allowed to flee/you are free to go (even if you have actually done something wrong)

not sure how the law stands currently but maybe no officer is allowed to physically arrest someone on their own, they must always be with a partner, both with visible credentials

it's terrifying what happened to Sarah, how dare he, and how dare the police let him get away with all the indecent exposure incidents so he was free on the streets to abduct Sarah

surely something extra has to be implemented now so any lone person can immediately inform someone

This

I think about the number of deaths in custody and suspect there have been many young black men over the years as well who would prefer there to be a black chaperone with them as they get dragged off. I don’t suppose they have ever had much luck shouting and screaming and resisting until one is provided for them though.

Any officer will be happy for you to call 101 or 999 to get their collar number confirmed. Officers in Scotland can ONLY arrest people in pairs.

I've been thinking about this all morning.

I was brought up to think that the police were there to protect and help you - I count former and current officers among my friends and family - and if you were in trouble, find a police officer.

However, recent (and not so recent) incidents in this country have really changed my mind and made me highly suspicious the police's attitude towards certain groups, particularly women (of all races) and BAME men, particularly young men.

I recently had an eye-opening conversation with a Black London-born and bred colleague (I am white and grew up in Scotland).

We are the same age - early 40s - and she mentioned having to have 'the chat' with her teenaged sons, in the same way her mother had 'the chat' with her brothers 20+ years ago, about what to do when approached or stopped by police.

I was horrified, but she just shrugged it off in an 'it is what it is' way - she is a highly-educated professional, living with her Black husband and children in leafy SW London, but she and her family know it's not a case of if it happens, but when.

The Met - and all forces - needs to conduct a root and branch investigation of their processes and implement immediate change.

No wonder so many elements of our society are highly distrustful of the police when it is, in their mind, an absolute given that at some point, they will be ill-treated - or even murdered - by the very people who are supposed to be there to protect them.

From hereon in, if I'm stopped by a solo cop attempting to apprehend me, I'll be yelling 'FIRE!' at the top of my voice...

@Sylvvie

Any officer will be happy for you to call 101 or 999 to get their collar number confirmed. Officers in Scotland can ONLY arrest people in pairs.

I'm Scottish and I wasn't aware of this - thank you for clarifying!

When does the right to a call begin? If it’s not presently from the moment of being apprehended, maybe it could be?

Sky news just had the ex head of the met on and she said that no police officer should be asking you to get into an unmarked police car. So refuse and ask them to call a marked colleague

@Nesbo

I think about the number of deaths in custody and suspect there have been many young black men over the years as well who would prefer there to be a black chaperone with them as they get dragged off. I don’t suppose they have ever had much luck shouting and screaming and resisting until one is provided for them though.

I do think the hoo haa on MN over the last couple of days is interesting to watch.

Because its now happened to a white woman, suddenly now people are sitting up and taking notice.

Genuine question - the women saying that they would refuse, peacefully or otherwise - would you get into a taxi with a make driver on your own?

The thing is, I would hesitate and be very concerned if a male off duty officer tried to arrest me, solely because of this case. Yet I'll continue happily jumping into taxis alone, which is silly on reflection.

Because its now happened to a white woman, suddenly now people are sitting up and taking notice.
I agree with this.

I also think it's really easy from our armchairs to say that we'd scream and shout or refuse to get in the car. He had planned this so had almost certainly planned a script. We have no idea what he said to her or how much he threatened her. I'm sure she was suspicious of him but the reason she was murdered was because he is an evil bastard, not because of her critical thinking skills.

The reason why it's such massive news is because it is really rare. I haven't heard of a police officer pretending to arrest someone to commit a serious crime on them, but happy to be corrected on that.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Genuine question - the women saying that they would refuse, peacefully or otherwise - would you get into a taxi with a make driver on your own?

The thing is, I would hesitate and be very concerned if a male off duty officer tried to arrest me, solely because of this case. Yet I'll continue happily jumping into taxis alone, which is silly on reflection.

You wouldn’t be handcuffed before getting into a taxi.

Nor would you have your phone taken from you.

There was an incident in the early 90s where a few young men bought joke policemen’s hats and fake id’s and if I recall correctly even a siren as a ‘laugh’ and stupidly took it further and were pulling over random people on the seafront at Southend and dining them £25 and drivers were not disputing it and were handing over money until someone tipped off the old bill and they got nicked.

It’s not just women that don’t question someone they believe to be the police even if it’s highly unlikely bro be a real copper!

Seriously, after this? I’d create a hell of a scene if it was a lone policeman trying to apprehend me.

JesusInTheCabbageVan

Genuine question - the women saying that they would refuse, peacefully or otherwise - would you get into a taxi with a make driver on your own?

The thing is, I would hesitate and be very concerned if a male off duty officer tried to arrest me, solely because of this case. Yet I'll continue happily jumping into taxis alone, which is silly on reflection“

That’s a good point.

Whatever we all think we would or wouldn’t do, though, I believe that whatever dear Sarah had or had not done, whatever suspicions she may have had, whatever questions she may have raised or requests she had made, this man would have got her into that car whatever it had taken. He was intent and driven.

I have no idea what the answer should be, going forward, if there even is one.

No idea what I’m even trying to say. Just so sad.

@Ishouldbeworkinginstead - yep.

And for all we know she kicked and screamed and shouted for help but he is a man and therefore unquestionably stronger. We say we would do all of those things but faced with a quiet empty street and a determined male I think we are deluding ourselves if we think it's that easy to get away.

RIP Sarah

@Sylvvie

Officers in Scotland can ONLY arrest people in pairs.

Can you please point me in the right direction so I can get this clear in my head? I have checked the government website about being arrested but it doesn't state their must be 2 officers. The police Scotland site has so much on it I'm finding it hard to filter through to the part I need.

@Sylvvie

Any officer will be happy for you to call 101 or 999 to get their collar number confirmed. Officers in Scotland can ONLY arrest people in pairs.

Wow didn’t know this!! Why not England then? Surely this needs to change immediately.

I always thought that it wasn’t right if it’s a lone officer arresting you, I think there has to be 2 of them and surely a female has to be there when a male officer is arresting a female no?