If a police officer arrested you like Wayne Couzens?

[faithfulbird20]

Unfortunately it's taken losing Sarah to such a horrific crime to ask such a question. But what are we supposed to do. Someone arrests you off duty and you don't know whether u can trust them due to this case. What would you do? Ring 999 and say I'm being arrested by so and so but I don't know if he's on duty or if he's dodgy please can you log it somewhere. I just want to know if I'm definitely being taken to the police station I feel unsafe. There should be some sort of law. But what could you do? You've got no chance. No chance of safety. It's scary.

Thing is, ok he's approached you, told you you are under arrest, you back off, so he grabs you and cuffs you. That's it you are snookered.

It's only when backup isn't called for you resisting arrest do you realise I'm fucked. But you are cuffed , incapacitated, that's it game over.

It's horrific.

Zilla1

It remains to be seen how seriously the police take the allegations that this murderer's colleagues suppressed adverse consequences to his behaviour around indecent exposure
Excuse my ignorance but what are the 'adverse consequences' here? You mean they tried to cover up his actions?

@Redglitter

If an officer is off duty and arrests someone he shouldn't be putting them anywhere near his car. He should be phoning 999 for assistance from on duty officers in a marked car.

As pp said in Scotland for someone to be arrested there has to be 2 officers present. Its also policy that unless it's a very rural area officers aren't allowed out on patrol on their own

Yep, my dad was a police officer and when I was younger on a family day out he witnessed a group stealing petrol and with fake number plates, we followed them until they parked up, he got out of the car, showed them his badge and said they were being arrested but he had called for on duty officers to come which they did quite soon after, I may be wrong but I don't think plain clothed officers would put you in an unmarked car if they arrested you. But ofcourse, Sarah wasn't to know that as most people probably don't (and I might actually be wrong)

@PegasusReturns

I do think the hoo haa on MN over the last couple of days is interesting to watch

WTAF?! How lovely to read that the distress of women has provided good entertainment value for you

Being interesting doesn’t mean it’s entertainment.

I agree with the PP that it’s interesting how many white women have only just realised that the police can pose a threat, despite police brutality against black people having been in the news for years.

I think that the arresting of Sarah, was just a ploy, from a warped police officer, who had in mind, what his intentions were going to be, And hope that this will be taken into account, with all the other evidence now. It seems plainly obvious, that he had an extremely disturbed mind, to do what he did to Sarah.

I still think the onus should be on the Police Forces to assess and change their procedures but, in lieu of that, would it be possible to build then individually trigger on potential arrest a smartphone app that alerts some national charity, loved ones and some official real time register together with initial and ongoing GPS tracking in case of potential arrest by a plain clothes alleged police officer or officers. Depending on the law, immediate audio recording. Even better if the arrestee takes a photo of the arresting officer. I think the law is contested about photographing police but the Chief Constables could be asked regarding their position about this protective measure in this limited circumstance and global consent sought? Would be a red flag if the arresting officer tries to prevent this. Possible scope for a bystander to trigger an alert vicariously if the alleged officer prevents the arrestee from triggering this. Some provocative title for the smartphone app might be helpful.

*We owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves as to what are our legal rights and to question things that could put us in a dangerous situation.

He was just a random bloke with a card that said he was a police officer.*

No he wasn’t a random bloke with a card, he was a fully trained police man. A man who is trusted by the public.

Is sarah had done any of the thing people suggested ( and we don’t know she didn’t) it would have made no difference at all.

She would have been seen as resisting arrest, and he would have just bundled her in the car anyway.

Genuine question - the women saying that they would refuse, peacefully or otherwise - would you get into a taxi with a make driver on your own?

If I have a choice of driver I choose female. If I have no choice then I do use the cab, but I text someone to say where I'm going and I text them the number plate and driver name/number and let them know when I get out.

I also read that if you ever feel in danger in a cab or you can see something is taking a turn, to pull some hairs out and push them down between the seats, it leaves your dna in the vehicle and is often missed if the driver cleans inside.

Shout Help Me and try and create a scene that brought people over. Then demand another officer/marked car (and pray the passer bys that stopped stay with me).

I think what needs to be taken into consideration is that this is a tragic isolated incident, one of a kind, that will most likely never happen again in our lifetime.
There have clearly been failings from the met police at various points hence the IOPC investigating and serving papers on officers.
It isn’t systemic of every police officer out there.
It’s tragic horrific incident but it does not represent the police force as a whole

@IntermittentParps that's the suggestion. I've no evidence or real understanding. Let's hope there is a robust investigation though it seems worrying if his reputation in his previous force was known for years/decades? with no action.

Even if Sarah had “resisted arrest”, I expect the outcome would have been the same. Police officers are used to people trying to get away from them, so he would have still been able to kidnap her and to witnesses it would have still looked like an arrest.

@Freddiefox

*We owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves as to what are our legal rights and to question things that could put us in a dangerous situation.

He was just a random bloke with a card that said he was a police officer.*

No he wasn’t a random bloke with a card, he was a fully trained police man. A man who is trusted by the public.

Is sarah had done any of the thing people suggested ( and we don’t know she didn’t) it would have made no difference at all.

She would have been seen as resisting arrest, and he would have just bundled her in the car anyway.

He might have ‘bundled her in the car anyway’. However if she had look distressed and resisted someone might have rung 999 and given the reg of the car and he might have got caught.

Single police officers can arrest people in scotland. We need to be very careful spreading false information.

Off duty police officers could detain someone but would call in on duty officers to take the person in. I hwve witnessed it first hand with a family member who is an officer in scotland where he had to detain a drink driver off duty to stop them driving off.

There should be no need for women to have to go through increasingly elaborate checks and procedures like this just to be safe. It’s putting the onus on women again to protect themselves when they are not the problem. I blame the fact that no-one within the force who knew him or was aware of his previous record thought what he had done was important enough to take official action about. They really thought that it was ok for a serving officer to have exposed himself on more than one occasion? What is police culture like if this is treated as a joke?

@ Rainydays2454

This type of incident where a police man murders or rapes a women isn’t a one off at all.
There are lots of examples of police using their power to abuse and hurt women.

A genuine officer doing his duty would probably let you ring 999 to check, not gonna help you if he's up to no good, he'd probably overpower you.
I believe that if you're in your car you are allowed to drive to a lit up area and ring and check.
That poor girl never stood a chance 😢

Just saw this on twitter

'just heard on @BBCWorldatOne Former Met chief super Parm Sandhu saying female officers don’t always report suspicious behaviour of male colleagues because they “close ranks” & you risk being left to get your head kicked in on duty if you call for help'

@Freddiefox it is an isolated incident though, it’s not like this type of thing happens each day out there.
Yes there will be officers who abuse there powers, the same goes in every single profession where you are in a position of trust

The problem with any 'solution' that sees extra police officers being summoned to the scene is that the people being added to the equation are still fucking police officers.

The police ignored and buried the 2015 indecent exposure allegations.

He was nicknamed 'the Rapist' by colleagues but it seems everyone thought this was a bit of a giggle, and no-one thought to examine whether he was a danger to women.

They all contributed to poor Sarah's death. Couzens is guilty of her murder as an individual. But as an institution they aided and abetted him.

How can any woman ever trust them, ever again?

@MrsSkylerWhite

When does the right to a call begin? If it’s not presently from the moment of being apprehended, maybe it could be?

I don't see that this would work sadly. It would be all too easy for actual criminals to warn another person they are being arrested. Stolen goods and evidence etc could be got rid of, accomplices could flee etc. I dont know what the solution is, other than for men to just stop their violence.

I got pulled by a unmarked police vehicle for a break light once with a solo male officer.

He approached my driver's window and did the whole do you know why I pulled you, he then invited me to get in to the unmarked black BMW. I said no. He then got a bit arsy but off he went to the car and came back and said stay here a marked car is on its way. When they turned up I then agreed to the stop, and the ticket.

But you know what he said "had you got in the car I wouldn't have ticketed you, just given you a warning to get it fixed...."

So I was punished further for making sure I was safe. Cheers. 🙄

@Freddiefox

*We owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves as to what are our legal rights and to question things that could put us in a dangerous situation.

He was just a random bloke with a card that said he was a police officer.*

No he wasn’t a random bloke with a card, he was a fully trained police man. A man who is trusted by the public.

Is sarah had done any of the thing people suggested ( and we don’t know she didn’t) it would have made no difference at all.

She would have been seen as resisting arrest, and he would have just bundled her in the car anyway.

I suspect that he had probably thought 'what if the woman resists' and he probably thought 'I'll get away with it anyway'

[quote Rainydays2454]@Freddiefox it is an isolated incident though, it’s not like this type of thing happens each day out there.
Yes there will be officers who abuse there powers, the same goes in every single profession where you are in a position of trust[/quote]
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-leicestershire-18244598

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-policeman-who-raped-woman-23316636.amp

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/ex-wife-of-police-officer-says-force-refused-to-do-anything-when-he-threatened-her-with-a-knife-12353225

Police violence against women is not an isolated incident.

[quote Zilla1]@IntermittentParps that's the suggestion. I've no evidence or real understanding. Let's hope there is a robust investigation though it seems worrying if his reputation in his previous force was known for years/decades? with no action.[/quote]
Indeed.