If a police officer arrested you like Wayne Couzens?

[faithfulbird20]

Unfortunately it's taken losing Sarah to such a horrific crime to ask such a question. But what are we supposed to do. Someone arrests you off duty and you don't know whether u can trust them due to this case. What would you do? Ring 999 and say I'm being arrested by so and so but I don't know if he's on duty or if he's dodgy please can you log it somewhere. I just want to know if I'm definitely being taken to the police station I feel unsafe. There should be some sort of law. But what could you do? You've got no chance. No chance of safety. It's scary.

I don't see that this would work sadly. It would be all too easy for actual criminals to warn another person they are being arrested. Stolen goods and evidence etc could be got rid of, accomplices could flee etc. I dont know what the solution is, other than for men to just stop their violence.

Something I'd like to see is a police force that is genuinely representative of society. That doesn't just mean enough people from BAME backgrounds, it means at least 50% women police officers and staff, including in senior positions.

This seems to be be the only possible way of actually effecting some kind of cultural change. For some reason, this appears to be be part of no-one's agenda.

@Rainydays2454

I think what needs to be taken into consideration is that this is a tragic isolated incident, one of a kind, that will most likely never happen again in our lifetime. There have clearly been failings from the met police at various points hence the IOPC investigating and serving papers on officers. It isn’t systemic of every police officer out there. It’s tragic horrific incident but it does not represent the police force as a whole

It comes right from Cressida Dick at the top (funny how her contract was renewed right before the reports of the sentencing came out, isn't it?) and, as others say, it is woven into the fucking DNA of the police force in the form of no one thinking the guy should be suspended while they look into the indecent exposure thing, or thinking of taking his warrant card and cuffs off him. Not to mention the 'hilarious' Rapist nickname his colleagues gave him.

@Sylvvie

Any officer will be happy for you to call 101 or 999 to get their collar number confirmed. Officers in Scotland can ONLY arrest people in pairs.

But surely the murderous Bastard in this shocking case would have had a genuine collar number.

Your missing the point I’m not saying violence against women is isolated… I’m saying the incident is isolated.

There is violence against women every day, some of those people will be police, some judges , teachers doctors.

@Rainydays2454

Your missing the point I’m not saying violence against women is isolated… I’m saying the incident is isolated. There is violence against women every day, some of those people will be police, some judges , teachers doctors.

Is his colleagues recognising that he was a danger to women to the point where his nickname was 'the Rapist', but doing precisely fuck all about it, an 'isolated incident'?

No. It was everyone he worked with. It was all of them. It was the police as an institution.

After this incident I’d take my chances - kick him in the balls and run. I’d scream and make the whole thing as difficult as possible. She may have tried this too to no avail, but what I’m saying is that I wouldn’t be intimidated into quietly going with them. I’d rather risk being charged with assaulting a police officer than end up raped and dead. It’s incredibly sad that that’s something we have to ponder on.

I agree with the PP that it’s interesting how many white women have only just realised that the police can pose a threat, despite police brutality against black people having been in the news for years

I've always known that police officers can be racist and misogynistic - but this is a whole new level of mistrust.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

It was reported from the evidence of the dash cam that she was meek and co operative after he showed her his warrant card.

It was reported that she cooperated. 'Meek' is an insulting and victim blaming word that you added yourself, I think?

Absolutely victim blaming, disgusting.

I really don’t know what I’d do. Like a PP said I think I’d rather take my chances and make it as difficult for them as possible and get done for assaulting a police officer. I’ve had experiences with male police officers before and they have all been bad experiences. I really don’t trust the police, minorities aren’t protected by them and have more reason to be scared of them. I don’t think I’d feel safe calling the police for anything anymore, especially due to past experiences when they treated me like crap.

Yes there will be officers who abuse there powers, the same goes in every single profession where you are in a position of trust

I've been a teacher for a decade and during that time I have never, ever come across teachers jokingly referring to a colleague as "the rapist" or hushing up serious allegations (such as indecent exposure). No profession is perfect and I don't doubt that there are some very bad people who are teachers. But there isn't a culture of covering up each other's crimes.

While this particular man may be an aberration, all of those officers who turned a blind eye to his red flag behaviours are a huge problem that various police forces don't want to acknowledge. There is a real culture problem that needs to be addressed if the police force want to regain public trust. Trying to use the "one bad apple" defence simply indicates that far too many officers don't even realise that there is a problem.

Would I have done anything different to Sarah in this situation? Probably not. Her murderer was a big man, he was rehearsed and he had a legit warrant card.

I’ve had some ‘interesting’ dealings with police. After giving a full statement about criminal damage to my property in the station, a lone officer turned up at my place early the following morning for my statement. I refused, he tried to guilt trip me by saying he was tired and had walked all the way to my place. Big red flags were flying on that one. I’d already given a statement so why turn up at my place and by himself??!

It really wouldn't matter what if you questioned them, or calmly refused to be hand cuffed etc. If a man has planned to abducted you and murder you, they will do it. Unless you are in a place where you can get other peoples attention, or you are stronger than the man trying to abduct you, you're petty much fucked.

@ChloeCrocodile that’s your experience of the schools you’ve been in. It won’t be the experience as a whole, which is what I’m trying to get at…. A teacher sexually abusing a pupil went to prison recently… it doesn’t mean all teachers are sexual predators.

Wayne’s actions do not mean that every police officer is the same… it doesn’t mean that every police officer out there should be tarnished under the same brush.

There are huge failings from the police force in terms of vetting him, concerns raised etc, but that does not mean all police are like that

There's nothing she could have done. If it had been me, there would have been nothing I could have done.

Any action on my behalf would have been taken by bystanders as resisting arrest. It was the perfect cover for him.

If I'd struggled then he would have slammed me against the car and cuffed me and everyone looking would have said "stupid woman, resisting arrest and making a scene. She's probably drunk, or on drugs, or dangerous, or mad, or bad".

If you saw a police officer with a screaming, shouting woman against a car, what would you have done then? What would you do now?

@ditalini

There's nothing she could have done. If it had been me, there would have been nothing I could have done.

Any action on my behalf would have been taken by bystanders as resisting arrest. It was the perfect cover for him.

If I'd struggled then he would have slammed me against the car and cuffed me and everyone looking would have said "stupid woman, resisting arrest and making a scene. She's probably drunk, or on drugs, or dangerous, or mad, or bad".

If you saw a police officer with a screaming, shouting woman against a car, what would you have done then? What would you do now?

Exactly!

@supercritter

This

Why two other male officers?

@Thatsplentyjack

It really wouldn't matter what if you questioned them, or calmly refused to be hand cuffed etc. If a man has planned to abducted you and murder you, they will do it. Unless you are in a place where you can get other peoples attention, or you are stronger than the man trying to abduct you, you're petty much fucked.

In this case there were other people around.

@supercritter

Why does two male police officers?

[quote Crunchymum]@supercritter

Why does two male police officers?[/quote]
Given that the underlying problem is cultural - covering up for each other, recognising a colleague as 'the Rapist' as a bit of a titter instead of a red flag - doesn't two male coppers just mean twice the danger?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10045557/Traumatised-McDonalds-worker-reveals-half-naked-Wayne-Couzens-flashed-her.html

Have a look at this (and apologies for the Fail link).

If the police had done their jobs, instead of closing ranks to protect their own, Sarah Everard would probably still be alive.

Culturally and morally bankrupt. They are meant to protect us but so often do the exact opposite. Something needs to change, big time.

At 9pm when there's effectively a curfew what help was kicking and screaming going to be anyway?

What was Sarah supposed to do once she was handcuffed?

Even if there was a right to a phonecall he was hardly going to allow it, it wasn't a real arrest!

Whatever the rules are about legitimate arrests, he was still going to be able to overpower and handcuff her.

The failing here was failing to deal properly with the previous concerns about him.

If you insist two police officers must be present to make an arrest you double the cost of policing. That's not going to make anyone safer.

@GreatPotato

At 9pm when there's effectively a curfew what help was kicking and screaming going to be anyway?

What was Sarah supposed to do once she was handcuffed?

Even if there was a right to a phonecall he was hardly going to allow it, it wasn't a real arrest!

Whatever the rules are about legitimate arrests, he was still going to be able to overpower and handcuff her.

The failing here was failing to deal properly with the previous concerns about him.

If you insist two police officers must be present to make an arrest you double the cost of policing. That's not going to make anyone safer.

Do you mean there wasn't anyone else around? Because there demonstrably was.

The point about asking for a phone call is partly that it may well spook someone planning an abduction.

Costs: well, instead of cutting police budgets the government could have tried giving them more money, couldn't they?

People suggesting things like walking away, asking to call 101 or 999 to verify the arrest / police officer, or any other type tactic to 'defend' themselves have apparently never spoken to a young black man.

Yes, of course government could give police more.money but people in UK never vote to pay more tax, even if they say they want more money spent.

If people had seen her "resisiting arrest" what would they have done? A violent woman screaming and kicking a police officer just doing his job...?

@VladmirsPoutine

People suggesting things like walking away, asking to call 101 or 999 to verify the arrest / police officer, or any other type tactic to 'defend' themselves have apparently never spoken to a young black man.

Yep. The police have routinely been behaving like complete cunts to certain communities, on an institutional level, for decades.

I dare say that most posters here are in categories of people who are used to seeing the police as benign. That experience is not universal. Many communities see the police as sources of injustice, persecution and violence.

Can I recommend 'a Killing in Tiger Bay' - currently on iplayer - if people want to see the extent of the police's (recent) routine, callous arseholery towards members of the BAME communities.

And like with Wayne Couzens, they were all complicit to a certain extent.