Previously undecided voters would you vote for Starmer's Labour now?

[VinylQueen]

Are there any previously Tory voters or undecided voters who would now consider voting Labour in a GE based on Kier Starmer's speech and him taking on the far left of the party?

I vote Labour anyway but I'm interested if any of his speech "cut through" as they say. To my eyes the main heckler just came across like a complete loony and made Kier Starmer's stance look even more sensible.

Momentum and Unions might not get behind KS 100% because of the £15 min wage challenge.
If they continue trying to force a purity test on each MP in terms of Socialism or about attitudes to varying lifestyles then Labour will still be in the mess that it is in now.
Tory policies have moved left a long way from where they once were.
The Furlough cost at least £70Billion for instance. It had to be done but they could have ended it two months ago when they asked people to go back into the office.
They are committed to the NHS in a way they have not before. They are putting pressure on GPs to give real F2F meetings. They are finding it difficult because the BMA is so strong. Every PM has found it difficult since Atlee had to 'stuff their mouths with gold' to shut them up.
(I think that is the quote)
They are a long way from where I want them to be but where are the others?

Isn't it worth getting a more socially caring government in first before then challenging them in their stance on women?
Translation: "Put the kettle on, love. Two sugars in mine."

Yes. He seems to want to make Labour into a serious political party as opposed to a left wing talking shop. All the left and the members of the CLPs have ever done for Labour, so far as I can see, is to lose general elections. With Scotland gone, this could be Labour's last chance.

Isn't it worth getting a more socially caring government in first before then challenging them in their stance on women?

Why would you think this would work at all?

Do you really think Conservatives offer you a better whole package?

In terms of women's rights currently I actually do, which frankly should be a total embarrassment to Labour.
Because it isn't like the Conservatives are a shining beacon.

But I will reserve some judgment until after the Tory conference, maybe they will implode in the same way?

At the moment I would vote Labour because they are not the Conservatives, but I would not be voting for Labour.

The problem is Labour is still infected with the hard left and Corbynites and they really need to get their house in order quickly. I am not saying the Conservatives are any better in terms of policy or competence, but at least there is not an internal faction intent on destroying the party. Starmer seems like a decent, intelligent, principled man, trying to fight the Conservatives but constantly having to fight off the backstabbing of the hard left, Corbynites and a group of his party obsessed with identify politics and claiming that anyone with a penis can say that they are a woman. I get the impression that he really wants to make the UK a better place, but is hamstrung by a party intent on self destruction, where as Johnson just wants power for powers sake, cares nothing for the people he rules over and most of his party will stay roughly in line because they know that discipline keeps them in power.

I’ve just watched that Marr clip again, and honestly, I find the bit after the cervix moment even worse - where he literally says trans people are the most marginalised of many many communities.

Is that true? At my local primary school there are children who didn’t have enough to eat during lockdown whose parents are in poverty and reliant on free food from the local church; parents who can’t cope with children with severe ADHD who are being told there is a 3-year waiting list for CAMHS; refugee families who have literally nothing. There has been a huge increase in domestic violence. People have lost their jobs. The homeless people who were given hotel rooms in the first lockdown are back out on the streets. Mental health services are in absolute crisis.

Are these people less marginalised and vulnerable than trans people? Would any of our local MN visitors like to come on this thread and validate what Starmer said? I’m sure many trans people are also affected by poverty and other factors, but are they the MOST marginalised community of many communities? Above primary school kids in poverty?

Just got the below email from Maternity Action, and it made me think instantly of what Starmer said. I’m wondering again if any of our local trans activists would like to drop in right here and explain to me why trans people are more marginalised than the women and babies below.

—————

This month we launch our new report, Breach of Trust, which found that many NHS Trusts in England are routinely ignoring or misinterpreting the law on charging overseas women for maternity care, even though the government's own policy says that the most vulnerable should be exempt from paying.

The report found multiple examples of women being charged when they should be exempt, and of NHS Trusts aggressively chasing payments of women who are clearly destitute and have no means to pay.

The impact on the health of mothers and their babies is devastating. Our advice lines are full of terrified women, scared to go to antenatal appointments in case they are charged, even if they’re supposed to be exempt.

The report's findings received substantial media coverage, including BBC's Newsnight, The Guardian, Independent, BBC News and The House Magazine. and our call to end NHS overseas maternity charges was backed by the Royal College of Midwives and the RCOG.

In light of these findings, we're also asking that MPs, at the very least, ensure their local NHS Trust is properly following the exemptions and guidance regarding charging migrant women for maternity care.

@kristplankook

Why would you think that someone deciding not to vote Labour would then vote Tory? That will be a cold day in hell. It could be the first time I don't vote at all.

Not that you'd vote for them but by denying Labour your vote then you'd be getting them elected for sure.

So the only way you think Labour could gain my vote is to apply some emotional blackmail?

Maybe apply that to Keir et al - tell them do some fucking politicking before we all die of old age!

@Snog

I liked Starmer's speech and think he looks more credible as a leader now. I really don't like that he seems weak on womens rights as that is really important to me.

I do like that he seems a much more upstanding citizen than BJ.

I agree on Starmer, I don't think he is weak on women's rights entirely, I think his problem is that Labour are already tearing themselves apart with their trans ideology and he has to pick his battles.

I agree on him being an upstanding citizen, especially compared to Johnson, but then not many people are going to fail against Johnson.

Same as many other PPs - I've usually voted Lib Dem but wasn't completely opposed to voting Labour - now, no way. I'm politically homeless too.

Absolutely not!
There is no way I could vote for a party that denies biological reality and is willing to throw the rights and safety of 51% of the population under the bus. There are many issues I agree with them on but for me and my daughters I could never vote for labour, lib dem or green whilst they continue their stance on identity politics!

Labour are very slow learners. They keep losing elections by angering the very people who are their natural core voters, let alone trying to attract floating voters.
Removing all single sex protection for women and pretending they don’t even know what a woman IS - that’s a losing strategy right there, for 51% of the population.
To paraphrase the Trans Rights Activists:
Enjoy your erasure, Starmer.

Things are shit under the conservative government but if you then add the TWAW, just grow a cervix to be a woman bollocks it'll be even more shit.

I find it strange that the Labour Party and its supporters are banging on about workers rights when in reality they don't give a shiny shite about the rights over over half the population of this country.

They want to even things up but only if you are male or happen to be one of those special people who can magically grow a female part of the anatomy!

If only they'd grow some balls 🤔

I'm extremely worried about the implications of a representative of the government saying, 'You can't say that,' in response to a statement of biological fact; that women have a cervix. The implications are frightening for science and free speech.

I'm afraid I also can't support their policies on private schools. And that's also pretty fundamental to me.

I'm sorry about this as I had very high hopes for Starmer.

I don't see Tories imploding at their Conference. They usually manage it tighter.
The might get derailed if someone publishes a book the way Sara Keays torpedoed Cecil Parkinson. That was a real one off.
How we get through Christmas will be the test.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

So the only way you think Labour could gain my vote is to apply some emotional blackmail?

Maybe apply that to Keir et al - tell them do some fucking politicking before we all die of old age!

Exactly! It's all "Why don't you selfish uppity females think about everybody else before yourselves?" and "After the revolution, luv" - how about the Labour Party choose other priorities, eh?

When do you think the next General Election will be?
How long can BJ put it off so that we build up towards normal after Covid?

Well, there is still a law governing that - the HoL have only had the first reading of the Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Bill, so May 2, 2024. or earlier.

There doesn't have to be an general election till 2024. At the moment I can't see why the tories would want one sooner, by then johnson might be gone

As usual we are expected to put everyone else before us. Not anymore, women’s rights come first for me.

Hell would freeze over before I would vote for Labour and I say that as a remainer who utterly despises Johnson and all he has done.

Labour voter here. I'd rather not vote than vote for starmer. He's not 'sensible' he's more of the bloody same.

I'm not convinced Johnson's views on women's rights are any better, given how he's treated the women in his life and policies on pensions etc etc. It's their policies that have got us here.
I'd vote for whoever I thought would a: oust my useless tory mp and b: out the Tories in general.

Labour are very slow learners

I think for many of them their visceral hatred for Tories prevents any sort of tempered language and they just can’t stop themselves from hurling insults at Tory voters.
You see it on political threads on mn.
Also, I suppose it follows that as they loathe Tories so much they are only friends with like minded people, and any Tories they may come across at work or whatever wouldn’t dare admire their views for fear of the Labour supporters’ reaction.

Lots of people here saying they can vote for a party that doesn't recognize their sex. My question is how commmon a view do you think this is amongst the electorate? I am wondering how much an impact this will have on their vote share. Do their focus groups pick up anything on this?