Anyone follow the coverage of the Sarah Everard case today and want to vent?

[HangingOver]

I'm home alone today and except for whatsapping my friends have nothing to do with this incandescent rage and hopeless sadness.

Anyone else need to talk?

If anyone witnessed a crime of a black man murdering a person and claimed " all black people " should have curfews and take collective responsibility they would probably be arrested for racism and rightly so. It seems that men are fair game where one commits a terrible crime yet just based on what's between their legs they should endure a curfew and take collective responsibility?

Some real crackpots posting on this thread- the tarring of all people with one brush based on race or gender is disgusting and the same trait as a society we condemn in racists. Can you imagine if it was the other way around and society said the same thing about women.. you wouldn't be able to hear yourself speak with the cries of misogyny regarding a specific crime

When i read this on BBC news I felt sick to my stomach.
She must have felt such fear as she slowly realised that nothing about this was right.
This subhuman deserves everything that the law can throw at him and more. It's criminal to me that he still had his warrant card after being placed under investigation for indecent exposure.
The thing that made me feel even more incandescent with rage is the fact he took his children camping on his plot of land so he could try to further cover his tracks.

I love how being a woman And saying how were sick of being subject to sexual and physical violence by men involves throwing every female offenders name at us. Fuck off

@Jennifermadison if there was an epidemic of women brutally murdering children at the rate of two a week then yes, I would expect women to start asking very serious questions about their collective behaviour and working to make significant changes. Unlike male violence against women, the likes of Myra Hindley are incredibly rare, so they can be classed as anomalous.

Men assaulting, raping and murdering women happens day in and day out. The two cannot be compared, so stop trying to derail the topic by focusing on individuals like Hindley whose behaviour very clearly lies outside of the norm.

Like PP have said, I don't believe this is the first time he used his job to brutalise women, and threaten/ intimate them into silence.

Please don't tar all men and police officers with the same brush.

When you have experienced abuse at the hands of a police officer, my ex husband, and witnessed first hand the appalling response of his 'colleagues' when reporting him, it tends to change your view of both men and the police, and I won't apologise for how I feel on it.

Some men may care. Some police may care. The vast majority don't.

I don't really care about upsetting men/the police with my views. I care about the actual harm being done to vast numbers of women and children on a daily basis.

The victim impact statements are heartbreaking. Her family have to go through this every day, knowing that she would have been absolutely terrified. And not to know if she was still alive when she was set on fire is even more horrendous, if that's possible.

I think the fact that he was so blatant that his colleagues (not known for their anti-sexism stance on the whole) called him The Rapist shows how he felt he could get away with despicable behaviour which escalated into serial assault and then on to rape and murder.

My heart goes out to Sarah and her family

Another one disgusted and angry when I read this. Such a horrific premeditated attack. So many women would be taken in by this.
I agree men definitely need to change how women are viewed. Not just men though, the women who victim blame need to stop.

@Jennifermadison

If anyone witnessed a crime of a black man murdering a person and claimed " all black people " should have curfews and take collective responsibility they would probably be arrested for racism and rightly so. It seems that men are fair game where one commits a terrible crime yet just based on what's between their legs they should endure a curfew and take collective responsibility?

Some real crackpots posting on this thread- the tarring of all people with one brush based on race or gender is disgusting and the same trait as a society we condemn in racists. Can you imagine if it was the other way around and society said the same thing about women.. you wouldn't be able to hear yourself speak with the cries of misogyny regarding a specific crime

Firstly, it isn't true that you can make an accurate comparison by turning things around, e.g. saying I hate men is not the same as saying I hate women, because of the history behind it and the power structure in society. Same thing with saying all white people is not the same as saying all black people. Secondly, when people suggest a curfew for men, it doesn't tend to be serious, it tends to be said to prove a point, and the outrage around suggesting a curfew for men does prove a point, because people aren't as outraged at women being told to stay home (essentially a curfew)

so decent men need to feel responsible for a small collection of scumbags that commit crimes like this?

It’s the decent men that we need to act. And they will only act if they feel a sense of responsibility to act.

All murders are dreadful. But the details of this one was truly horrific. Who could 100% trust a policeman again And those colleagues who covered up for him. Surely there should be absolutely no chance of his release. Ever.

If I were a man I would -
Bring any boys I had up to be feminists (or have a damn good try).
Use al positions of power to change the status quo - whether recruiting, promotion, employment generally etc.
I’d stop ogling and objectifying women or call out ‘mates’ who think that’s clever. I’d just start seeing women as equals with every breath I take. It isn’t easy. It easy to have Privilege of whatever sort and see it and change it. I have privilege of class race and profession and know it’s not always easy or comfortable.

I wish my daughter wasn't at University. I want her here for a big, big hug. What a terrifying time to be a woman.

I felt powerless and sad hearing this on the radio at lunchtime

@Jennifermadison

If anyone witnessed a crime of a black man murdering a person and claimed " all black people " should have curfews and take collective responsibility they would probably be arrested for racism and rightly so. It seems that men are fair game where one commits a terrible crime yet just based on what's between their legs they should endure a curfew and take collective responsibility?

Some real crackpots posting on this thread- the tarring of all people with one brush based on race or gender is disgusting and the same trait as a society we condemn in racists. Can you imagine if it was the other way around and society said the same thing about women.. you wouldn't be able to hear yourself speak with the cries of misogyny regarding a specific crime

Nothing to do with gender. It's sex. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the sex that holds most of the world's wealth and power, and also commits 99% of sex crimes and 96% of murders to, you know, have a go at fixing the situation.

‘ Her friends were very pro-active on social media when she was missing so we were all invested in the outcome. Then it turned out that she had done everything you're advised to. She left her friend's house at a reasonable time, walked along busy well-lit streets, was wearing sensible clothes, and she was kidapped by a serving police officer.’

Very much this.
The immediacy of the attention after her disappearance is something that stands out. Something wasn’t right & her friends saw this through.

@Weirdlynormal

What this tells me is you NEVER EVER get in a car with a man alone if you don't trust them with your life. Uniformed officers do not work alone. Problem is that no one else stepped in when they saw this happening.

Yes they do work alone.

I feel absolutely sickened by what I've heard today.

That he had planned this so meticulously and used his position in such a way... pure evil!

I hope the prick rots in hell and never sees daylight again.

I can't imagine the horror that Sarah went through and the pain her family must be gong through.

@HeronLanyon

jennifer I said I would bloody love it. Wouldn’t you ? I didn’t say it would ever happen. I’m not in government. I’m at the criminal bar and deal with mostly male violence on both men and women daily.

Would I love my husband and son to be under curfew? No I wouldn't, it's an utterly ridiculous suggestion

What are some specific things I can do that would be useful?

Obviously I have no idea of your circumstances and what situations you commonly find yourself in, so taking from this case, his colleagues had nicknamed him “the rapist”- sounds like common sense to tell you to report anything at all like this in your workplace, but clearly, no one did in WCs case. Report this shit. Report your concerns. I can’t tell you how many times I have reported suspicious behaviour and been made to feel stupid but I will continue to report it every single time. Do it. Even if you’re wrong and feel stupid. Report anything that feels off. Encourage your friends, family, colleagues, to do the same. Share with them your stories of doing it. Make it normal and acceptable to report inappropriate behaviour.

I have spent all afternoon trying to reconcile why today's news has made my blood run so cold. I think it's a culmination of all the things everyone else has already articulated but mostly (for me) the fact that he was fucking rational and pre-meditated enough to have formulated the plan, spotted his victim and then followed through in PLAIN SIGHT knowing full well his fucking intention. I keep imagining Sarah being a bit confused and embarrassed that she might have inadvertently broken a Covid rule and being humiliated about being arrested.

By doing it that way, he stole her instinct to run/fight back and instead reduced her to someone meek who would only gradually have realised the terrible terrible situation she was in (I won't say 'mistake she made' as she did not make a mistake getting in his car).

It's that. It's the brazen and calculated approach. It's the thought of her possibly apologising for doing something wrong and his fucking smugness at how clever he was. It's the idea that poor people witnessed it and didn't understand what they were seeing. It's the thought that she didn't stand a chance because she didn't know she was in danger. He was a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing and anything less than a full life term makes a mockery of the judicial system.

@DoraMaude

It's one of the worst things I've ever read. That poor woman. However he is the one to blame - I don't think we should diminish this in any way by seeking to hold anyone else to account. He is an evil man who was entirely responsible for this. Not all men. Not the police.

How do you account for THE POLICE not immediately acting on him being caught exposing himself?

I just read that he not only used a warrant card and handcuffs, he also strangled her with his police belt.

I really don't have the words any more to describe how I feel about him.

[quote milveycrohn]@ancientgran Covid restrictions at the time meant you were not supposed to visit another household unless you were in a 'support bubble'. Of course, many people probably did, but remember pubs, cinemas etc were closed, and advice to WFH, so there were probably fewer people about; possibly joggers exercising.
So, fewer people about means fewer witnesses for the perpetrator (who seems to have planned this premedidated attack).
Also, there could have been an expectation in the mind of Sarah, that she might be stopped by the police.[/quote]
Thanks, lockdown seems so far away now.

The roads being quiet is a good point, I look at the parents parking outside my house for drop off/pick up at the local school and I think in the 50s when I was at school or in the 80s when my kids were at school most kids walked to school and there was safety in numbers. Now the ones walking (not many round here) seem isolated. The same thing goes doesn't it.

@Jennifermadison

That is because its becoming more previliant with male violence. You named one woman (who acted with a man.)

I would say that all of my female friends have at least one story of how a man has made them feel uncomfortable, whether that is standing that little bit too close, to cat calling, or maybe to worse stories of sexual abuse, to rape to being beaten.

The point is, women do not feel safe, we have rules we have to follow otherwise it is our fault we are attacked. 1425 women were killed between 2008-2018 by men, one every three days. In a year ONS estimated that 4.9 million woman were victims of sexual assualt, including rape and attempted rape.

Its not just one man once in a while, like, your example of Myra Hindley, men are being violent every day to women, or if you want to get picky at least once every 3 days.