Campaigners lose abortion fight

[EmeraldRaine]

Heidi Crowter and a few others were campaigning to remove the right for women to choose abortion if their baby was found to be affected by Downs syndrome. These campaigners feel that women shouldn't have the right to terminate a pregnancy because the foetus has Downs Syndrome, because it discriminates against people with Downs syndrome.

Cant help but think that this was a victory for common sense. Downs syndrome like every other disability is different from person to person and lots of people would feel unable to cope with a child with a lifelong disability. To say that isn't discriminating against disabled people. The only person who has the right to choose in every single case, is the woman who is pregnant. Perhaps these campaigners would be better off campaiging for better support for disabled people and their carers than trying to remove women's rights to make decisions that are best for them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-58662846

I have sympathy for them, and I absolutely believe people with Downs Syndrome can live very fulfilling lives.
But I also strongly believe in a woman right to choose, for whatever reason, to abort their pregnancy.

Would I abort a foetus with downs syndrome? Maybe, maybe not. Would I judge someone else for doing so? No.

[quote YorkshireTeapot91]@IfImLyingImDying I’m quite happy for it to be the 8th wonder, unlike the living Hell that must be your mind. Of course, you’re mother chose not to kill you, otherwise you wouldn’t be here to offload such hate.[/quote]
It’s ok. You only have my pity. I know you only have you views a because you can’t comprehend such a complex subject for whatever reason. That’s probably a good thing for you.

As an aside, later term abortions are incredibly rare and generally much wanted pregnancies. Late term abortions are almost always a medical necessity.

The right to choose is just that. As an individual that may offend on any level, but that's the prerogative of the woman concerned.

@MrsSkylerWhite

But this is NOT what the thread is about. The point you are trying to argue doesn’t even exist. Neither does the other side’s“

There are posters on this thread arguing in favour of full term abortions. Those are what I was responding to because I disagree with that point of view.

Apologies, didn’t realise I had to seek your permission to disagree with third party opinion.

People are saying you should be able to legally abort for any reason.

Given a learning disability is sufficient reason .

You can legally abort a fetus with down syndrome or other genetic syndrome regardless of the fetus being "healthy" I e no obvious health issue.

So logically why not any fetus? For any reason? Because you don't know how they will turn out

With any fetus you don't know if they will go on to develop any issues. Severe Mh or adhd or autism or ....

The only certainty with down syndrome is is a level of learning disabilities but that can vary widely. You can be a paralympic swimmer ;dancer: model ; actor: cbeebies presenter...or more significant issues.

Should every fetus with potential learning disabilities (I e down syndrome) be permitted to be aborted? Moot point because they can be. If said l d is diagnosed prenatally.

When did this 'right to choose' phrase come in. Is it actually written in any legislation.

As in up to term.

[quote YorkshireTeapot91]@IfImLyingImDying Classic deflection technique, the ‘pro-choice’ hypocrite can not justify their reasoning for wishing to deprive unborn babies of their choice to live, so resorts to childish insults. There’s clearly no further point in me discussing such a complex matter with troubled individual.[/quote]
Fetuses don’t “choose to live”, what an odd thing to say.

[quote YorkshireTeapot91]@LateDecemberBackInLowB12 ‘Disablist’? Look at you, attempting to take the moral high round whilst hypocritically condoning the murder of disabled babies. It’s no wonder my post doesn’t make sense to you, even more moronic than your first response! [/quote]
I'm supporting abortion for any woman who wants one, not 'condoning' abortion for a particular group, however the casual disablism says all I need to know about you, typical pro lifer.

[quote YorkshireTeapot91]@IfImLyingImDying Classic deflection technique, the ‘pro-choice’ hypocrite can not justify their reasoning for wishing to deprive unborn babies of their choice to live, so resorts to childish insults. There’s clearly no further point in me discussing such a complex matter with troubled individual.[/quote]
Why would anyone need to justify it? It's not your business their reasons for it. It's their decision doing what is best for them.

Fetuses don't choose to live because they are already alive. Like it or not. This thread is enough to turn me pro-life.

I think it is problematic when someone with a particular disability has thrived and then insists everyone with the same disability should be thought of in the same way. One of the most difficult thing parents of profoundly disabled children have to see, is others raving about how it is all sunshine and laughter and how much joy their child brings, when their own child suffers every day. For every parent celebrating their adult child with Down syndrome graduating, or getting a job, there are dozens more fretting about who will take care of their adult child when the parents are no longer around.

What is important is that we educate people about the potential risks, hardships, struggles and give them as much information as we can, in order to help them make a decision which suits their own circumstances. Painting it as a rosy picture helps nobody.

@Viviennemary

Fetuses don't choose to live because they are already alive. Like it or not. This thread is enough to turn me pro-life.

Science disagrees but you don’t seem the sort that can comprehend that.

@Viviennemary

Fetuses don't choose to live because they are already alive. Like it or not. This thread is enough to turn me pro-life.

Not gonna lie, some of the options on this thread are very off putting. I wouldn't turn pro life, but it's definitely not changing anyone's mind in their favour, that's for sure.

@BoredZelda

I think it is problematic when someone with a particular disability has thrived and then insists everyone with the same disability should be thought of in the same way. One of the most difficult thing parents of profoundly disabled children have to see, is others raving about how it is all sunshine and laughter and how much joy their child brings, when their own child suffers every day. For every parent celebrating their adult child with Down syndrome graduating, or getting a job, there are dozens more fretting about who will take care of their adult child when the parents are no longer around.

What is important is that we educate people about the potential risks, hardships, struggles and give them as much information as we can, in order to help them make a decision which suits their own circumstances. Painting it as a rosy picture helps nobody.

This.

Science disagrees but you don’t seem the sort that can comprehend that.

Um what? Of course she's right. Fetuses have every single life process as a criteria for life. The fact they are inside the body doesn't make them less alive. The fact they are not a legal person doesn't make them not alive, and isn't based in science.

Whhatever your stance, saying it's not alive is just plain stupid, and basically implies 'abortion is only acceptable if we pretend it's not alive'. Which actually plays into anti abortion arguments.

@Handsoffstrikesagain

yorkshire genuine question, do you propose that women or girls who have been raped or abused should be forced to give birth then? As you seem to think that all abortion is evil, I’m going right to the most basic reason for it here, why should those who will already be in great distress be forced to give birth to an unwanted child?

In that situation Maybe the girl or woman has been kept from appointments so is past 24 weeks Maybe it is incest Or rape So is past 24 weeks Regardless of baby being diagnosed with anything or not She should be able to abort if she chooses That is why the legalities should be broader

@secsee

Science disagrees but you don’t seem the sort that can comprehend that.

Um what? Of course she's right. Fetuses have every single life process as a criteria for life. The fact they are inside the body doesn't make them less alive. The fact they are not a legal person doesn't make them not alive, and isn't based in science.

Whhatever your stance, saying it's not alive is just plain stupid, and basically implies 'abortion is only acceptable if we pretend it's not alive'. Which actually plays into anti abortion arguments.

They can’t survive outside the body. That means they’re not alive. Pregnancy = being a life support machine for 9 months.

[quote YorkshireTeapot91]@IfImLyingImDying Classic deflection technique, the ‘pro-choice’ hypocrite can not justify their reasoning for wishing to deprive unborn babies of their choice to live, so resorts to childish insults. There’s clearly no further point in me discussing such a complex matter with troubled individual.[/quote]

1. I believe in body autonomy.
2. I can’t agree to forced birth.
3. I know that to outlaw abortion only results in outlawing legal abortion and therefore, condemns women to serious injury and death.
4. I see the consequences of people’s choices around subjects like this daily. And a lot of what I see, I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. There should always be choice because without it, there’s great suffering, for the mother’s AND the babies.
5. I deal in facts and science. Not made up analogies.

Don’t you dare come into an argument as important as this not knowing anything to back your point of view. Not once have you given a fact based point, a shred of experience or a piece of knowledge to provoke any kind of thought or justify your abhorrent beliefs.

Get educated.

Past say 35 weeks could survive easily with little intervention . But that is not the point. The mother can decide for set of reasons to abort up to term ; otherwise only to much earlier

@YorkshireTeapot91

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Do you hate women?

Would you like a list of the many many reasons why the option of abortion is necessary, vital for the mental and physical health of many women, and absolutely humane?

Or are you just extremely ignorant.