Chasing up ambulance

[Mariell]

My mother fell and my father couldn’t get her up. He called ambulance 9.30pm.

Called ambulance again at midnight. Ambulance came 5.30am!

This was a couple of days ago and My mother is in hospital.

I live over 300 miles away.

My dad has recently given the emergency cord alarm people my phone number.

He has fallen and cannot get up so cant get to his landline or mobile phone and is stuck on the floor. He pulled an emergency cord and was able to speak.

They have called an ambulance.

Given the time taken recently to get an ambulance to my mother do I call and chase it up?

My parents were doing great but in a very short space of time have their health has rapidly declined so all this is emergency stuff is new to us.

It’s not a nice thing to say or face up to but ambulances really are only there for life threatening situations. They’re simply not there to act as taxis for people with fractures, sprains, breaks or burns. The run of the mill ‘serious enough for A&E but not serious enough to kill you’ kinda stuff.

Unfortunately there are a huge amount of elderly and vulnerable people who don’t have support networks in place to look after them. It’s much more common now for adult children to live hundreds of miles away but at some point you have to ask yourself whether two very elderly and frail people are capable of living without family/friends nearby. In this case probably not as it seems that even with an emergency pull cord the plan to get them medical help is still by ambulance which may or may not turn up for hours.

It’s awful but ofc they can’t divert an ambulance away from a cardiac arrest or a child who isn’t breathing just because an old man has been on the floor for a few hours

Update. Ambulance came at 1.30pm.

Such a relief he hasn’t been on the floor all that time and relatives and firemen had got to him sooner.

What happened was he got up early and went to the bathroom and decided as he was up he would try and get himself rest whilst he felt ok as he was seeing the GP at 10.30am.

He then dropped something and because he was in the bathroom there wasn’t a great deal of space so he turned awkwardly in his side instead of bending forward as he would usually and the unusual (for him) meant his legs gave away and down he went.

The ambulance didn’t take him straight away they did some checks and asked him to stand up which he astounded them by doing so but he then immediately fell back in the sofa so he has now been taken and admitted into hospital.

It’s a huge relief that he is in hospital and is apparently in good spirits but there is the sadness of the uncertainty of the future.

In reply to a couple of comments about carbon dioxide that is not an issue as they have a monitor and regular checks and services on boiler etc are made.

They’re simply not there to act as taxis for people with fractures, sprains, breaks or burns

Im glad you brought taxis up.

Taxi drivers leaving the job in droves due to drop in custom in lockdowns means those ill enough to go to hospital but not ill enough to need an ambulance will have to call ambulance rather than taxi thus increasing demand.

Those who would be able to get their under their own steam normally and dont drive (though obvs not a good idea to drive when you are ill anyway)

And im also in Essex. I think someone would have difficulty walking from Braintree where i am to the nearest A and E in Chelmsford without a fracture let alone with one.

@Lonelylooloo Because people got on their bikes to look for work. How many times have we seen on these boards comments about if how people cant afford to live in a certain area they will have to move away.
We are now seeing the consequences

@JustLyra

Please have someone check that their carbon monoxide alarm is working given the sudden nature of their symptoms.

Call the gas emergency number on 0800 111 999 to report the incident, or the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) Gas Safety Advice Line on 0800 300 363

Dr. Sprau notes that when not immediately treated, carbon monoxide poisoning can lead to persistent problems that include headaches, motor weakness, balance problems, vision difficulties, hearing loss and numbness or tingling in the hands or feet , as well as an increased risk of heart damage, cognitive problems and anxiety or depression

OP, just read all of this, your poor father and poor you too.

Thank God for the fire service. Well done Essex Fire and Rescue.

I hope your parents are out of hospital soon. As a previous poster suggested would they look at moving closer to you?

Remember the knights who say say ‘Ni!’ Monty Python? she’s like that! Her arm could be cut off and she would say - “It’s just a scratch!”

The Black Knight - "it's just a flesh wound!"

I know what you mean, my grandparents were like that. And you cannot make them accept carers/a keysafe/Social Services involvement/mobility aids. We may think they are making bad choices, but as long as they have capacity it's entirely up to them to keep making those choices. Fingers crossed that recent events will encourage your dad to accept help.

As an aside when I had my first baby I was living in Essex and my partner didn’t drive.

The arrangement was that if I went into labour before 9.00pm then my dad would drive over and pick us up and take us to hospital.

After 9.00pm the hospital told us we must call an ambulance. I felt awkward about using an ambulance but that was what we were instructed to do as taxi’s would not take a woman in labour in case of waters breaking etc

So my waters broke and I went into labour at 9.30 and around 10.15pm my partner called for an ambulance only to be told that there had been a big car accident and no ambulances available and to call the police!

I was driven along with my partner in the back of a police car with one young policeman looking pale faced and hoping we would get to the hospital in time and an older policeman who had children and was saying it was his dream to deliver a baby!

They had the light on but no siren!

If you had power of attorney for medical purposes, am wondering how the emergency services would know?

Obviously you aren't their carer, and am sure that you will sort out the issue of being able to contact the alarm people, but if you want to make medical decisions for your parents, it may be something to raise with them when they are in a better state obviously.

Telecaster button works well - worn and they press if need any help. Some things sorted over the phone (eg it’s 7am not 7pm), other times they can physically send out 2 carers to get him back on his feet etc. Monthly charge big too steep - about £30 from memory.

DF has frequent falls and Fire & Rescue were often a great help to him, they’re able to come out in pairs in 4x4 vehicle (rural area!), but obviously would prioritise on need, so they wouldn’t leave a house to burn down whilst they picked up your DF.

Ask for adult social worker involvement and they should help - its much cheaper than sending routine carers out, so most Council social workers are pretty keen.

Good to hear that he’s in the system - it’s a lot easier to get support packages etc when the you know what hits the fan.

It’ll be important now that the right package gets put in place - emphasise to whoever is involved (usually adult social services) that there’s nobody nearby so they’ll need a complete care plan. Say yes to any support/aids that’s offered in terms of equipment etc. If you don’t think the care package proposed ahead of discharge is going to be safe/suitable say no - the phrase “unsafe discharge” will flag up that you know your onions.

Above all, don’t be all British and say “we can manage” - be That Relative if you need to be. It’s amazing how “this is all that’s available” changes to “or we have this” when you politely but firmly say “that isn’t going to work.”

We have a button system worn our wrists. Run by local Council we pay £6.50 a week, paid quarterly. Used it three times. Took them twenty minutes when OH fell. Later, when the leg was too painful to walk we called 999. Non life threatening they said, ring 111. Eventually they called an ambulance for OH. That took 8 hours, arriving at 8am.

I feel so sorry for you, but sadly that’s how it is.

I'm so glad that my dad, even though he is 84, is physically fit and mentally well. He is technologically literate, with a MacBook, iPad and iPhone - a DGR recently bought himself a 2nd hand Apple watch so that I woukk look d be alerted if he had a fall (would take me c20 minutes to get across to his place). And he had two Alexas in his house.

He was able to monitor his heart with his watch, noticed some discrepancies so printed off an ECG, which he then took up with his cardiologist, who he was seeing anyway for a semi-related matter (he's a retired radiologist himself) - and ended up getting a pacemaker fitted that afternoon (wasn't even allowed to go home to get pyjamas - I had to go and get his car and take it home and pick up overnight supplies for him).

So that was the NHS working well

On the other hand, a friend of mine's 95 year old mother, who recently moved into a home as her dementia and physical frailty were making it too difficult to forget to stay at home, recently fell and broke her hip. It happened at 3 in the afternoon and she had to lie on the floor (albeit with the care staff keeping her company) until after 1 in the morning , by which time she was so dehydrated (as they hadn't wanted to give her anything as they assumed she'd be operated on straight away) that the paramedics couldn't even get a line into her to give her pain relief To make matters worse, the care home was in lockdown because of Covid cases and so her daughters weren't allowed in. But at least my friend was able to keep her company in the ambulance once it was queuing at the hospital (for another few hours) - she said the paramedics were wonderful if over-stretched

Hope your dad isn't too shaken up Mariell - and that your mother also makes a rapid recovery and becomes less stubborn

I am so sorry to hear about this OP, and am glad things are settling down now. Hope your Mum is doing well also.

Please don't take this the wrong way anyone, but being stubborn about the practicalities can be quite selfish when other family members are concerned and can do little due to distance etc.

I am a survivor of feisty, determined and stubborn family members who refused to accept help, refused to consider residential/sheltered care, and refused to move closer to family support. It nearly broke me.

Wishing you well.

Sympathies OP ,it can be hard with parents as they get older .

If they don't have a microwave and you're going to get one please ,please get one with simple controls that they can see . This will also be a boon if they do have carers who dont have time to figure out the 18th different kind they've come across that day .

Search for manual ,not digital
eg

www.amazon.co.uk/Tower-Microwave-Function-Stainless-Interior/dp/B075RGW141/ref=sr_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=manual+microwave&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1630954926&sr=8-11

*Called the fire brigade and they were there in seconds and they cut the door in half (mother will not be amused if she finds out! )

They had no restrictions in lifting and helping him up and got him on the sofa and he’s had a drink and a bite to eat.

Fire brigade are absolutely wonderful and I will be sending them a thank you message*

Blimey, I'm amazed Fire were willing to pick him up - not surprised they were round in a flash and happily chopped the door in two though, they provide the emergency break in service for Ambulance round here and are great. Unfortunately Ambulance are slammed at the moment. Some ambulance services have volunteers who will pop round and do assist-only falls, unfortunately ours doesn't.

Glad hes being looked at in hopsital it wouldnt have been right to leave him alone

Above all, don’t be all British and say “we can manage” - be That Relative if you need to be. It’s amazing how “this is all that’s available” changes to “or we have this” when you politely but firmly say “that isn’t going to work.”

Exactly this. When DM went into hospital her GP told me that no matter how awful it made me feel I had to say that I couldn't and wouldn't be looking after her when she came out. I felt awful when the doctor started telling me what I needed to do for DM to come and I said I wouldn't be looking after. She glared at me and said 'in that case I'll have to involve social services' so I glared back and said 'you do that' despite wanting to cry.

DM needed more care than I could give her, although she'd never admit it and I knew I was doing the right thing but I felt bloody horrible.

Update - not so long ago he was still in A&E where the ambulance admitted him at 3.00pm, and he is now waiting along with -

NINETY

other people waiting to be allocated a bed.

9 0

I can’t get my head around that but it is Southend on Sea hospital and the main one that covers a very large area.

No one was allowed in with him but at least he is in the system and will eventually be seen.

Mother has been placed in a medical ward.

@treacletartpudding

Check out piper lines with their local council. In my area we have a piper line that when pressed sends people out with an inflatable cushion to help get people off the floor. There is a small charge per month but so reassuring to know that someone will be going out to them when you can't get there. Takes pressure off the ambulance service too. Really hope that both your mum and dad will be ok.

I had to use an inflatable cushion recently, they are SO much better than they sound. Incredibly stable. And lift you to standing, totally amazing!

Gas, air & morphine helped!!

Hi OP, just wanted to say I am so sorry to heat it took so long to get to your dad today. The call volume in Essex is ridiculous at the momenf; one of my colleagues/friends works in the control centre said that over the weekend there were around 200 jobs that hadn't been assigned to a crew.

There simply are not enough crews around, and people are back to using the ambulance service for all manner of ridiculous things, meaning we aren't able to get to people like your dad in good time. He would have been lower on the priority list purely because of what happened, however these wait times are akin to winter pressures. I am dreading working over the winter, with even more jobs, hospital delays and poor weather.

Definitely discuss with them other retirement flat options - there are some I have been to (in mid essex, witham way) that are self contained flats, but are staffed. They have pull cords, and the carer option is there if wanted but equally they dont have to have carers if they dont want to!

It sounds like they need a step up, and it is so awful when it all happens so quickly; I completely empathise with you - I hd the same with my grandparents in December - they went from driving to southend for an ice cream to one being completely bed ridden, in the space of 2 weeks.

It is even harder when you aren't there to do anything in person - it is hard enough trying to deal in person let alone 4 hours away

prettybird didn’t realise there was an apple watch that can link to printing out ECG. Which one is it, please? All the best to your Dad.

We’ve seen so much good practice with local hospital, GP, surgery and pharmacist, long may it continue.

Same age as your Dad OP, though get irritated at elderly people who refuse to listen about having things in place, just in case. It’s not fair on their family, the NHS or the rest of society. Stubborness is Stupid.

Pull cords are of limited value, buttons are the best. Our providers have cushions, don’t think ambulances do, and had OH up easily.

One of our family, works in the Ambulance Service, not front line; there are people who work the system. Watch ‘Ambulance’ forget which station, eye opening.

Don't know which one he has @Petronius16 - except that it's not the latest one. I think it's a 4 but it might be a 5.

I've looked it up and it looks quite easy: having done an ECG, you got to the health app on your iphone and export it as a pdf.

Thanks.

Thank you everyone.

At some point he was transferred from A&E at Southend and moved to Queens Hospital in Romford.

I now have the direct number to the ward and when I called he was fast asleep so it’s a huge relief that he is warm, safe and sleeping in bed.

He is nil by mouth though and doctors doing the rounds will be discussing the possibility of an operation. I have no idea at this stage whet the operation is for but was told that the doctor or the kind nurse that I spoke to will phone me as soon as they had the relevant information.

He was actually born and grew up in Romford so it kind of felt reassuring that he was there rather than Southend! A bit of a nonsense thought I know!