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So he got the dogs out and left the people behind?!

445 replies

Sillysuzie · 31/08/2021 08:39

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/30/britain-dogs-afghan-people-pen-farthing

OP posts:
SofiaMichelle · 01/09/2021 10:31

@Parker231

twitter.com/talkradio/status/1432416025438523392?s=21

This is worth listening to if you want to know what happened.

Wow. That's a 'TalkRadio' link.

You can't seriously be offering that up as proof of anything.

TalkRadio makes the Daily Fail look evenhanded and sane.

RedToothBrush · 01/09/2021 10:58

@rigmarolo

It will contribute to an already dreadful lack of trust from other nations towards the British. How can we persuade our allies in future that we are serious allies, when we have demonstrated that when the shit hits the fan, we actually think their lives are worth less than the life of a pet? It was bad enough that we were leaving the country in such a disorganised way. But this just rubs it in.
This.

The problem is that it doesn't actually matter the ins and outs of the truth. Thats the thing with politics ultimately. Its what impression and perception people are left with.

And it looks to a lot of people as if the animals were prioritised over people who had risked their lives - both British and Afghan. If you are an army family or solider yourself, the idea that anyone was spending time at the gate, in the airport or otherwise faciliating this rescue when there was such a security risk, whether it be on breaktime or not does not look good. That time could have been used destroying equipment if nothing else. If you are a refugee who left and still has family left in Afghanistan or you were an Afghan helping the Brits or a Brit trapped there, seeing dogs and cats being transported by not you, is going to massively distress and anger you. If you've seen hours of footage of ministers trying to deal with the press over this, you would feel that could have been better spent opening some of the thousands of unopened emails?

It doesn't help now that there is a row over the Abbey Gate between the British and Americans, with speculation that the British requested that the gate be left open rather than closed as some of the Americans had wanted. Remember this was the gate that the animal rescue had been sent to that morning and had got stuck at. In the context of everything, some people will percieve the decision being in part driven by the desire to get the animals out before closing the crucial gate.

The fact that the Americans didn't evacute working dogs (who were used by contractors and weren't classified officially as service dogs) and instead were left to animal rescue with the apparent intention of arranging collection later, does not help either.

It all adds up to an optic which looks terrible in terms of diplomacy, how white well connected Brits were given a platform over desparate Afghan voices and more resources were poured into facilitating their rescue - at extra risk to everyone involved. It has implications for trust in the British in future. The danger is we will be percieved as racist as well as betraying friends who were keen to assist, even though there was risk attached.

I personally find it hard to swallow given what I know of army logistics. And its a total PR disaster internationally. The idea that its some kind of Tory cover up domestically for a fucked up withdrawal is one that doesn't hold as much water as some of this thread suggest. This was a foreign policy decision - you have Tories with a vested emotional interest in Afghanistan and a background in the army being amongst some of the most upset. These are people with a long history of being well informed and advocating for service personal (rather than politicians) and not normally prone to engaging with this type of bullshit in their politics. Its just not their style. It would be massively out of character for them to be putting a domestic PR stunt ahead of concerns about international reputation and foreign policy. They understand the importance of how this looks to the rest of the world and how bad its gone down outside the uk. This should have been considered, even if it upset people in the UK, because it has far reaching implications which have the potential to pose a future security risk.

The truth is irrelevant to many people who feel directly impacted or involved in the withdrawal - and they actually matter more than Joe Bloggs from Tonbridge thinks about animal welfare. Keeping in mind the current government have a 80 seat majority and don't seem to be too threatened by opposition any time soon. Domestic perceptions were not as important...

It is something that rubs in the very worst aspects of how the whole withdrawal has been handled.

The truth will come out eventually, but by then the people this matters too most will have moved on or have long since made up their minds and formed opinions on how they were hung out to dry in various ways.

Parker231 · 01/09/2021 11:05

@SofiaMichelle - which radio station it is irrelevant. The point is to listen to the guests as to what happened by people who were involved and not those jumping to incorrect conclusions that animals were saved instead of people.

BFrazzled · 01/09/2021 11:07

It all adds up to an optic which looks terrible in terms of diplomacy, how white well connected Brits were given a platform over desparate Afghan voices and more resources were poured into facilitating their rescue - at extra risk to everyone involved.

Well connected Brits (white or otherwise) get their way despite everything, it's just how the country works, so it isn't really a surprising outcome. I mean, the guy who is and will remain a prime minister for the foreseeable future despite much worse optics...

Doodlebug71 · 01/09/2021 11:11

@rigmarolo

He is an awful human being.

Why anyone was wasting any of their own let alone other people's time 'rescuing' cats and dogs when there were people whose lives were seriously at risk who needed urgent rescuing I have no idea.

It really shows the worst side of Britishness.

Farthign is not an awful human being, but I'm interested to know what you're basing your opinion on.

You have either missed the point of NOWZAD's humanitarian mission completely, or swallowed the lies from Wallace's smear campaign.

At this point, either of those is more than likely wilful ignorance.

The only blame for the failures to evacuate people from Afghanistan lie squarely and entirely with the government departments whose job it is and was to secure safe passage for those asking for it. They didn't. Their delays cost the NOWZAD staff their exit from Kabul, along with so many other people that planes were leaving empty.

This, from Farthing, more recently:
"Yes I managed to get the animals of @Nowzad*
on a flight to safety. I couldn’t take my staff as the Taliban put an AK47 in my face & told me they were staying. Not much I could do. BUT that does not mean we have given up. It was always and will BE ‘people & animals’ "*

twitter.com/PenFarthing/status/1432805620210675713/photo/1
"

SueSaid · 01/09/2021 11:23

'I find the misunderstanding and misinformation surrounding this so upsetting'

Yes and now we have Mr Farthing saying on interviews 'I had an AK47 in me face! nothing I could do!'. Conveniently side stepping the actual point that if he hadn't left it so late to go to the airport that may not have happened. Biden changed the rules as terror threats were by that stage real and credible, as surely any military person could have predicted. Time was of the essence.

They were cleared to leave. Farthing even gushed on Monday 23rd that he owed Johnson a pint www.vettimes.co.uk/news/uk-government-sorts-out-visas-and-transport-for-nowzad-team/. This all changed when his private jet to accommodate animals wasn't prioritised, his pals all tweeted 'give us a call sign!!'. If his staff still weren't cleared surely they'd have tweeted 'clear the staff!. But no, PF and his staff could have got a military flight but they delayed for their 'operation Ark' private jet.

There isn't a smear campaign people just keep responding to the goady crap in the media, all very selective with the details. This is about in a desperate, deteriorating situation and any airtime, attention, resources should not have been on evacuating animals.

He wasted time and all his fans are enabling him.

They should have got out in April when advised to, if not then, then certainly 2 days before they eventually packed up 3 truck loads of animals.

BroccoliFloret · 01/09/2021 11:25

Yes and now we have Mr Farthing saying on interviews 'I had an AK47 in me face! nothing I could do!'. Conveniently side stepping the actual point that if he hadn't left it so late to go to the airport that may not have happened

And we only have Mr Farthing's word that it happened in the way he said it did. This is a guy who has been caught in the past being less than truthful with the exact situation so take everything he says with a massive pinch of salt.

BroccoliFloret · 01/09/2021 11:26

Oh and I disagree that he's an "awful human being".

A very short-sighted, blinkered, media-savvy human being who puts the lives of abandoned animals above those of people, quite possibly.

SueSaid · 01/09/2021 11:33

@BroccoliFloret

Oh and I disagree that he's an "awful human being".

A very short-sighted, blinkered, media-savvy human being who puts the lives of abandoned animals above those of people, quite possibly.

Absolutely. I don't think he's awful just as you say for someone who likes to trade on his 'ex marine' status doesn't seem to have any common sense at all.

If he'd have said 'yes I got it wrong, I held out in the hope of getting both staff and animals out and that was the wrong call' then fine, he made a mistake while thinking he was doing the right thing. He has to live with that.

It's the ongoing saga, 'AK47s in my face', the constant not my fault crap that is tedious and not actually true.

Debetswell · 01/09/2021 11:37

@Sillysuzie

I'm fully aware the animals don't take seats. I'm not an idiot. But they don't just trot on into the hold themselves. Someone has to put them there. And that someone was the military, who could have been loading refugees on to planes instead
You're just being ridiculous. Refugees can only leave if they have paperwork. The US changed the rules after the suicide bomb so only UK and US passports were accepted.
KeflavikAirport · 01/09/2021 12:00

Excellent post @RedToothBrush

SofiaMichelle · 01/09/2021 12:50

@BroccoliFloret

Yes and now we have Mr Farthing saying on interviews 'I had an AK47 in me face! nothing I could do!'. Conveniently side stepping the actual point that if he hadn't left it so late to go to the airport that may not have happened

And we only have Mr Farthing's word that it happened in the way he said it did. This is a guy who has been caught in the past being less than truthful with the exact situation so take everything he says with a massive pinch of salt.

Indeed.

Many people will have now seen through him and his tactics, having heard his vile tirade and seen how his supporters have behaved.

Doodlebug71 · 01/09/2021 12:52

@BroccoliFloret

Yes and now we have Mr Farthing saying on interviews 'I had an AK47 in me face! nothing I could do!'. Conveniently side stepping the actual point that if he hadn't left it so late to go to the airport that may not have happened

And we only have Mr Farthing's word that it happened in the way he said it did. This is a guy who has been caught in the past being less than truthful with the exact situation so take everything he says with a massive pinch of salt.

@WanderingFruitWonderer. There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.

MN, you do realise that allowing constant libel of a person like this can lead to legal problems for yourselves? Especially when so much of the misinformation posted can be demonstrably proven as false information. Allowing your platform to be used in this way is not doing you any favours. IMO, obviously.

SueSaid · 01/09/2021 13:01

'MN, you do realise that allowing constant libel of a person like this can lead to legal problems for yourselves?'

You keep saying stuff like this, trying to silence people. It has been all over the main stream media and social media, we are allowed opinions on it. Stop trying to police threads just report any that may break TGs. .

'Many people will have now seen through him and his tactics, having heard his vile tirade and seen how his supporters have behaved.'

Absolutely. He needs to admit it was a combination of bad decisions, leaving it too late in a deteriorating situation and just admit he got it wrong. Sadly, for those left behind..

ScribblingPixie · 01/09/2021 13:05

I can't help but feel that the vast majority of people pitching in to slag off Pen Farthing wouldn't otherwise be talking about Afghanstan at all.

SofiaMichelle · 01/09/2021 13:06

@ScribblingPixie

I can't help but feel that the vast majority of people pitching in to slag off Pen Farthing wouldn't otherwise be talking about Afghanstan at all.
I think you'd be very wrong about that but obviously neither of us know.
SueSaid · 01/09/2021 13:10

'I can't help but feel that the vast majority of people pitching in to slag off Pen Farthing wouldn't otherwise be talking about Afghanstan at all.'

Oh no, I talk about it often. The footage of desperate people is distressing for us in our privileged safe homes to witness.

That is why I've objected to the cats and dogs taking up such a lot of media attention tbh.

Fwiw I'm not 'slagging him off', I am stating that he needs to take responsibility for his delayed actions and stop blaming Wallace/MOD and AK47s 'in his face'.

Doodlebug71 · 01/09/2021 13:10

@Janiiejones

'I find the misunderstanding and misinformation surrounding this so upsetting'

Yes and now we have Mr Farthing saying on interviews 'I had an AK47 in me face! nothing I could do!'. Conveniently side stepping the actual point that if he hadn't left it so late to go to the airport that may not have happened. Biden changed the rules as terror threats were by that stage real and credible, as surely any military person could have predicted. Time was of the essence.

They were cleared to leave. Farthing even gushed on Monday 23rd that he owed Johnson a pint www.vettimes.co.uk/news/uk-government-sorts-out-visas-and-transport-for-nowzad-team/. This all changed when his private jet to accommodate animals wasn't prioritised, his pals all tweeted 'give us a call sign!!'. If his staff still weren't cleared surely they'd have tweeted 'clear the staff!. But no, PF and his staff could have got a military flight but they delayed for their 'operation Ark' private jet.

There isn't a smear campaign people just keep responding to the goady crap in the media, all very selective with the details. This is about in a desperate, deteriorating situation and any airtime, attention, resources should not have been on evacuating animals.

He wasted time and all his fans are enabling him.

They should have got out in April when advised to, if not then, then certainly 2 days before they eventually packed up 3 truck loads of animals.

That link states this: Paul “Pen” Farthing, founder of the charity Nowzad, has taken to Twitter to announce that the UK Government has confirmed it will arrange a flight and visas into the UK for all 68 of Nowzad’s team.

"Will arrange flight and visas", not has arranged. Those visas were still not confirmed in writing on Tuesday 24th August, so they still couldn't leave.

twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1430071791205109763

They should have got out in April when advised to, if not then, then certainly 2 days before they eventually packed up 3 truck loads of animals. See above. The staff didn't have visas confirmed until the day of the night they all packed up and left for the airport. Ass soon as they were all told they were cleared, they packed up and headed for the airport.

The delays they faced were down to UK govt ineptitude, nothing else.

SueSaid · 01/09/2021 13:23

'Ass soon as they were all told they were cleared, they packed up and headed for the airport.'

Their stories just don't add up. They were demanding call signs on Monday and Tuesday. 'Just give us a fucking call sign' etc etc all over twitter. If they had not received electronic confirmation of the staff's clearance why would they want call signs?!. Also why on earth did they think they could control airspace and demand 'call signs', i didn't see anyone else doing this.

They left too late once their private jet was en route which was able to take animals. It has been reported that military aircraft were available sooner to take the staff but not animals and sadly the volatile situation became more volatile. Predictably.

VeganVeg · 01/09/2021 13:28

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NannyAndJohn · 01/09/2021 13:30

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ChardonnaysPetDragon · 01/09/2021 13:36

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Doodlebug71 · 01/09/2021 13:36

@Janiiejones. Fwiw I'm not 'slagging him off', I am stating that he needs to take responsibility for his delayed actions and stop blaming Wallace/MOD and AK47s 'in his face'.

See twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1430071791205109763

It wasn't him who delayed their attempts to leave. It was UKgovt.

Parker231 · 01/09/2021 13:39

He is going to be on Radio Five Live shortly.

Doodlebug71 · 01/09/2021 13:41

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