My son was arrested (trigger warning)

[arrestedhelp]

My son (in his mid 20s) was arrested yesterday. He was caught by an online vigilante group trying to meet a 15 year old boy with sexual intent. DS has ASD and lacks the capacity to understand the consequences of his actions, but he did it and was caught. The vigilante group have named him and given our location, and local FB now I'm scared for him, myself and my younger DCs. I have a place to go if anything should happen. The police cannot get the video taken down of the vigilante operation. I don't know what to do.

I also need to address this somehow with my younger DCs (7 and 11), they're going to notice things are different in the house and possibly hear stuff in school. We are due to have a SS welfare assessment as well. I don't even know where to start with them.

I feel so lost and scared.

@Autumndays123 yes because the only two option are removing the children and saying 'nothing to see here'
Clearly not

I agree @Candleabra

I really do feel for you op but you need to realise that your son is a risk to children and not minimise what he’s done.

I do hope you can all get help.

OP you need to listen to Autumn123.

I sadly have some knowledge/experience of similar and she is completely right as to how SS approach these things.

You MUST take your younger children’s welfare seriously now. SS’s primary concern will be to assess whether you are able and willing to safeguard them.

I’m really sorry this is happening to you.

I'm going to go slightly against the grain here.

First of all have you seen the messages? Have you read them? How was contact initiated, who asked to meet, was the "age" clear? Was it a sexual hook up or more of a "relationship " type? Is he actually gay?

You say the police are aware. What are they saying? Are they taking any action against your son? Is there an investigation happening?

Lastly, just because this happened it doesn't mean SS will automatically consider him a danger to his siblings. They will have an investigation and assess him and the situation. He might have to live somewhere else while this happens, but it's not a certainty.

Take all advice from them, cooperate and take them seriously.

Hi OP,
I had an adult family member do this. No sting operation but worked in a position of trust so all over the news etc.

Just some points:

• ASD won't excuse the behaviour. It might be taken into account but it doesn't stop what he did.

• Social services will want to know you are willing to do everything to protect your other children.

-He will have rules placed on him such as not allowed to be alone with children under 16 etc.

• You say your other children aren't at risk but frankly you can't know that 100%.

• People will be better than you think. My family were afraid that their windows would be smashed etc but not once did anybody do anything. In fact, the family were given lots of sympathy. Obviously the criminal wasn't but as he moved out straight away it wasn't our problem.

He needs to move out and live somewhere else. For everybody's sake.

Oh one last question, does his mental age match his physical age ?

Take care of yourself OP. This is horrible for you and your family. Just get as much support for yourself and your family as you can. Report any harassment to the Police. Remember that this group is subject to the law of the land as well. The police need to ensure your safety and if the group are putting you at risk they should act to to protect you.

Hi OP

This organisation may be able to advise www.lucyfaithfull.org.uk/

If somebody meets up with somebody else for sex, does that actually mean that they are more of a risk for commiting incest on their siblings?

Im trying to be realistic here. These were vigilante groups setting him up ( as far as i can see) we dont know what on earth their chats went like. We dont know if OPs son thought that he had a relationship blooming. Potentially even the first time someone had ever shown sexual interest in him. We. Dont
Know. How. It. Played. Out.
Usually we would hear about the 15 year old and be concerned for them. The fact that these were adult men trying to entrap a vulnerable adult for an internet channel makes a huge difference as to how these conversations may have gone.
His web history will shed more light on it.
There will be all sorts of things that need to be taken into account for safeguarding assessments.
Anyone that shares their home with adult men is at risk obviously, but more investigation will need to be done to determine whether this was someone trying to meet up with someone he thought he was in a relationship with who had potentially inititiated it - remembering that this was not an actual 15 year old boy but a bunch of grown men behind a computer, or whether the autistic man in his twenties is going out of his way to recruit underage boys for sex.
If this was a police sting i think id feel differently as theyd have had to have more evidence in order to even want to catch him out, but vigilante groups youve got no idea their motives or how they set this up.

Id still want to move though as it sounds like a total nightmare

@Northernparent68

Obviously he should n’t have been trying to meet a15 year old, but it’s a leap to say he’ll abuse his own children

No it's not. And they are siblings, not his own children. That's how abuse often starts, within the family and then when they get away with that they move on to others.

There's no way the OP can be sure that the younger children aren't at risk. This may not be the first time he has messaged children sexually, it's the first time he was caught though.

@Branleuse

If somebody meets up with somebody else for sex, does that actually mean that they are more of a risk for commiting incest on their siblings?

Im trying to be realistic here. These were vigilante groups setting him up ( as far as i can see) we dont know what on earth their chats went like. We dont know if OPs son thought that he had a relationship blooming. Potentially even the first time someone had ever shown sexual interest in him. We. Dont
Know. How. It. Played. Out.
Usually we would hear about the 15 year old and be concerned for them. The fact that these were adult men trying to entrap a vulnerable adult for an internet channel makes a huge difference as to how these conversations may have gone.
His web history will shed more light on it.
There will be all sorts of things that need to be taken into account for safeguarding assessments.
Anyone that shares their home with adult men is at risk obviously, but more investigation will need to be done to determine whether this was someone trying to meet up with someone he thought he was in a relationship with who had potentially inititiated it - remembering that this was not an actual 15 year old boy but a bunch of grown men behind a computer, or whether the autistic man in his twenties is going out of his way to recruit underage boys for sex.
If this was a police sting i think id feel differently as theyd have had to have more evidence in order to even want to catch him out, but vigilante groups youve got no idea their motives or how they set this up.

Id still want to move though as it sounds like a total nightmare

This.

The probability of the man being caught by a vigilante group contacting a child for the first time is very low.

Yes. It is most unlikely this is a first offence, and highly likely evidence of other offences will be found once his computer is searched.

If somebody meets up with somebody else for sex, does that actually mean that they are more of a risk for commiting incest on their siblings?

Maybe, maybe not. A sexual harm risk assessment should be carried out by a specialist. Sexual offending is actually complex and varied, it's not a case of paedo = risk to any and all children. Not that any assumptions of safety should be made until assessments are carried out. Some sexual offenders are indiscriminate and opportunistic predators and others are specific and discriminatory.

@TheYearOfSmallThings

The probability of the man being caught by a vigilante group contacting a child for the first time is very low.

Yes. It is most unlikely this is a first offence, and highly likely evidence of other offences will be found once his computer is searched.

There was no other evidence on the computer of the person i know. He was still convicted. His defence was awful.

I’m not talking about incest to siblings though. I’m talking about risk to friends of the siblings.

And if he remains in the house those siblings can’t ever have friends over.

So many messages and such a lot of advice on here. I can't answer them all individually as I am sure you can imagine I am a bit preoccupied here. We are waiting the SS welfare visit, the police recognised he was a vulnerable adult, made sure there was an appropriate adult with him at all times and commented to me on the phone that they can see he has a number of issues. They were happy to let him come home knowing I have 2 DCs here, they liaised with SS before bailing him, and we are on a strict no unsupervised (not even in a different room) contact with DCs. The police and SS are happy for him to return home, at least in the short term, so I will keep him here where I can keep him safe from reaction to this, but if at any point I, SS or the police feel he needs to leave, then he will.

The police have seen the messages, I have seen the sting video. I cant deny there was sexual messages between DS and the boy but the police also recognised that there was some leading by the sting group in order to maintain conversations with him and keep messages going. DS thought he was becoming involved in a relationship. I am NOT condoning what he has done!!! DS was talking to boy and making suggestions for what they could do as part of their relationship, there is no getting away with this.

Yes I should have monitored his social media more closely, I had no reason to suspect anything was wrong, this has been a very hard lesson for me!! Yes I will do whatever is necessary to protect all my children, even if it means one has to leave, but whilst the police and SS support him being here with conditions, I am happy to let him stay.

We are all just very sad and scared right now, I have not told the younger DCs what has happened and I wouldn't know where to start

*Even in cases like this there is nuance.
The fact that it wasnt a real person and noone got hurt too. Your sons mental capacity and mental 'age' and also whether he had reason to believe this fake boy was actually pursuing him or if your son was the one pursuing and grooming with full knowledge of this fake kids age. *

Why would he turn up in person if he believed it was a hoax? I don't know about over here but in America this is enough to be charged

I’m so sorry op this is so hard.

You need to tell your younger children and the sooner the better.

Their friendships are going to be affected and you need to help them to navigate that

@Branleuse

If somebody meets up with somebody else for sex, does that actually mean that they are more of a risk for commiting incest on their siblings?

Im trying to be realistic here. These were vigilante groups setting him up ( as far as i can see) we dont know what on earth their chats went like. We dont know if OPs son thought that he had a relationship blooming. Potentially even the first time someone had ever shown sexual interest in him. We. Dont
Know. How. It. Played. Out.
Usually we would hear about the 15 year old and be concerned for them. The fact that these were adult men trying to entrap a vulnerable adult for an internet channel makes a huge difference as to how these conversations may have gone.
His web history will shed more light on it.
There will be all sorts of things that need to be taken into account for safeguarding assessments.
Anyone that shares their home with adult men is at risk obviously, but more investigation will need to be done to determine whether this was someone trying to meet up with someone he thought he was in a relationship with who had potentially inititiated it - remembering that this was not an actual 15 year old boy but a bunch of grown men behind a computer, or whether the autistic man in his twenties is going out of his way to recruit underage boys for sex.
If this was a police sting i think id feel differently as theyd have had to have more evidence in order to even want to catch him out, but vigilante groups youve got no idea their motives or how they set this up.

Id still want to move though as it sounds like a total nightmare

Thank you. He did think it was a relationship. no one has ever shown, or allowed him to show, sexual interest in them. I want to believe he wasn't going out of his way to recruit young boys, I think this one was just allowing him to show interest, so he did. The police have told me that these vigilante groups go for easy targets, ones who can be reeled in.

@Branleuse

If somebody meets up with somebody else for sex, does that actually mean that they are more of a risk for commiting incest on their siblings?

Im trying to be realistic here. These were vigilante groups setting him up ( as far as i can see) we dont know what on earth their chats went like. We dont know if OPs son thought that he had a relationship blooming. Potentially even the first time someone had ever shown sexual interest in him. We. Dont
Know. How. It. Played. Out.
Usually we would hear about the 15 year old and be concerned for them. The fact that these were adult men trying to entrap a vulnerable adult for an internet channel makes a huge difference as to how these conversations may have gone.
His web history will shed more light on it.
There will be all sorts of things that need to be taken into account for safeguarding assessments.
Anyone that shares their home with adult men is at risk obviously, but more investigation will need to be done to determine whether this was someone trying to meet up with someone he thought he was in a relationship with who had potentially inititiated it - remembering that this was not an actual 15 year old boy but a bunch of grown men behind a computer, or whether the autistic man in his twenties is going out of his way to recruit underage boys for sex.
If this was a police sting i think id feel differently as theyd have had to have more evidence in order to even want to catch him out, but vigilante groups youve got no idea their motives or how they set this up.

Id still want to move though as it sounds like a total nightmare

Yes, I agree with the above. I felt the fact it was a vigilante group did make the whole thing a bit more suspect. We don't know what happened.

I just wanted to mention that I have worked with child abusers and many of them (not all) have ASD.

These are often people who have actually abused children, not just downloaded material or online chat.

Some men with ASD often feel more 'at home' with children and rejected/intimidated by adults and so this is one of the reasons their sexuality is then directed towards children.

Often (not always) they still have the capacity to understand what they're doing is not acceptable and harms the child but they choose to pursue it anyway as they prioritise their own sexual gratification over the child's harm.

In these cases while the reason they gravitate towards children is more understandable (not the same as saying ok) they are no different to other child abusers.

I definitely suggest getting a capacity assessment ASAP as a diagnosis of ASD is not going to be enough to suggest he doesn't have capacity. Obviously it goes without saying that their are millions of people with ASD who have capacity for all decisions in their life and there are some that don't have capacity.

Your judgement as his DM over his capacity is also not going to be enough.

First step would be to get him a solicitor - through legal aid if you can't afford to pay. They will be able to instruct an expert for the capacity assessment.

From your messages it is, at best, not clear whether he has capacity or not.

Just to be clear I'm not suggesting all, or even anything above a small minority of people with ASD are child abusers. Just that many child abusers have ASD.

The police have told me that these vigilante groups go for easy targets, ones who can be reeled in.

Generally they do. The stints are very targeted, normally with specific people in mind. They don't just set up fake profiles and wait to be contacted by "paedos" or message everyone in a long list. They tend to go for the "weirdos" in their own community. They are grown adults, with reasoning and capacity, very deliberate in their actions and with experience at some point. Without more evidence, you often wonder who groomed whom? Sometimes the age isn't revealed until some form of relationship is formed and their language and script is more convoluted than "hi I'm 15, wanna fuck?".

I don't know what the case if for your son, neither do the police or SS at the moment. It will all have to be investigated and he will be assessed. Just keep following their advice and recommendations and cooperate fully with them.

Without more evidence, you often wonder who groomed whom?

This is what I’m starting to think. Whilst the OP’s son did intend to have a sexual relationship with a child, you have to wonder if the vigilante group targeted him because of his additional needs. It would serve the purpose of getting them a video to post online for clicks and likes.

I have no advice to add, but couldn't not comment when you are clearly facing a nightmare situation. You are not responsible for whatever you son has done. You are doing the right things in working with the police and SS. Try not to blame yourself for this situation. Keep strong.