My son was arrested (trigger warning)

[arrestedhelp]

My son (in his mid 20s) was arrested yesterday. He was caught by an online vigilante group trying to meet a 15 year old boy with sexual intent. DS has ASD and lacks the capacity to understand the consequences of his actions, but he did it and was caught. The vigilante group have named him and given our location, and local FB now I'm scared for him, myself and my younger DCs. I have a place to go if anything should happen. The police cannot get the video taken down of the vigilante operation. I don't know what to do.

I also need to address this somehow with my younger DCs (7 and 11), they're going to notice things are different in the house and possibly hear stuff in school. We are due to have a SS welfare assessment as well. I don't even know where to start with them.

I feel so lost and scared.

@Miniroofbox

You are minimising and excusing. It’s understandable but you are going to do him and your younger children no favours if you continue to do this.

He has committed a serious offence and is a risk to children.

If he lacks capacity, you should have had net nanny or similar in place and monitored his access very stringently. If he has capacity (which it sounds like he does) then he is responsible.

I hope social services can help you and your younger children are protected.

I agree with this. He’s a risk to children including your children. You need to protect them.

Whilst we all know meeting an under age child for sex is wrong I think it needs to be remembered that many underage teens are online and lying about their age. A 15 year old is one year away from consent. Was there lying involved,mis information or manipulation to entice by the group to start? When did the age become apparent?I have sons and have grilled them to the nth degree about being careful online for this reason. Somebody like the ops son maybe more naive or less able to be so vigilant. Hopefully it will all be unpicked and dealt with accordingly by experienced professionals.

Services are stretched. There is zero support for autism as regards the individuals let alone carers.Autism can bring with it many difficulties and be very isolating. Very easy for posters to say he shouldn’t have had online access if he needs support, is living a limited and lonely life and the parents have to work.

I can’t give any advice as don’t know the system but I feel for you op and think yes showing the safety of your younger children is paramount to you is probably crucial.

OP if you come back and read this thread please feel free to private message me. I'm a Social Worker working with adults and I strongly feel that your son should be supported by adult services for both an assessment of his needs, an assessment of his capacity, support with housing and in terms of safeguarding him.

Are Adult Social Services involved? If not, you can make a referral, since, as he has a Learning Disability and is being targeted by the vigilantes, it falls under section 42 of the care act and there is an obligation by the local authority to conduct a safeguarding enquiry to look at mitigating the risks to your DS. They can also carry out capacity assessments.

I’m sorry you’re having to go through this. A few years ago, an old friend’s dad was caught by a vigilante group trying to solicit sex from who he thought was a teenaged girl. I’m glad they caught him, of course but I felt desperately sorry for his wife and daughter. They moved away very quickly and he went to prison. I’d had a falling out with his daughter and we’re no longer friends but I wouldn’t wish this situation on her.

In your situation, I feel for your other children. This will potentially follow them around. I really hope it doesn’t.

@arrestedhelp

For those asking, he is still lives at home, he has other disabilities alongside asd. He is absolutely no risk to the younger DCs, I accept he was talking to a younger boy in a sexual way, but the kids are at no risk from him.

It’s not for you to decide if he’s at any risk to anyone. He’s been caught trying to arrange to meet up with a child with sexual intent. You’ve said he ‘lacks capacity to understand the consequences of his actions’. I’m sure before he was caught, you’d have said he would never do such a thing as what he’s been caught doing. If you try to tell SS that your younger children are not at any risk, I can imagine they will deem it not to be safe for them to stay in the house if he’s present. Your choice is to move to a safe house as has been suggested, move your younger DCs to a relatives house or move your older Dc to a relatives house where there are no children. Currently having minors in the same house as a possible paedophile is not an option. If it was your partner who had been caught doing this, would you even consider allowing him near your younger children?

I think op talking to the people who know the case and know all the facts is probably best rather than MNers.Making sure you listen to their advice and what they feel is best for the younger children. Do they have an out of hours number?

Think you need to open your eyes op. Go to the safe house and take your younger DC with you

@arrestedhelp

For those asking, he is still lives at home, he has other disabilities alongside asd. He is absolutely no risk to the younger DCs, I accept he was talking to a younger boy in a sexual way, but the kids are at no risk from him.

If you believe this OP then I fear for your other children.

@Northernparent68

Obviously he should n’t have been trying to meet a15 year old, but it’s a leap to say he’ll abuse his own children

They are his siblings. Sexual abuse between older and younger siblings is extremely common, in fact it’s the most common type of sexual abuse.

So they were trying to set him up. Id want to know whether your son was on websites actively looking for teenagers or how this started and unfolded, and i think thats what the police and SS will surely focus on that. If your son is vulnerable and has been catfished by vigilantes for internet likes and drama.
Even in cases like this there is nuance.
The fact that it wasnt a real person and noone got hurt too. Your sons mental capacity and mental 'age' and also whether he had reason to believe this fake boy was actually pursuing him or if your son was the one pursuing and grooming with full knowledge of this fake kids age.

Id get really good legal advice and maybe ask an autism charity too.
Understanding true consent can be a difficult area if there is theory of mind difficulties and this is definitely something that needs more focus in education settings.
I expect that there will be an investigation into levels of risk, but with the fact he was set up like that by vigilantes will likely go in your sons favour.

I would try and steel yourself that this is going to be stressful and id be tempted to move areas if it really does kick off, but id be surprised if they tried to say that your other children were at risk if theres never been any evidence of interest in children previous to this vigilante set up

Your first priority has to be safeguarding your younger children.
Then work with the authorities to get the help for your older DS.
It's not going to be easy.

The fact it wasn’t a real person and no one got hurt is minimising the proclivities and actions of the op’s adult son.

He intended to meet a 15 year old boy to have sex

How is the op going to manage that with younger children in the house? Their friends?

What if the place she says he can go doesn’t want to take him? I sure as hell wouldn’t want that responsibility.

The op can’t have it both ways. Either he lacks capacity which was evidenced prior to this and she had safeguards in place, or he doesn’t and it’s his responsibility.

I don’t think it’s right for her to think she can say he lacks capacity when he’s been caught in illegal activity.

Also, I agree the threshold for removal is extremely high, but can you get much higher than a proven sexual predator with an appetite for children and inability to apparently understand what he's doing as wrong, living in the same house?

You have no idea what's actually going on in this house and what the risk level is. You're making huge assumptions based on a mumsnet post and making statements that you cannot possibly know to be true.

I don’t want to into details but a person I know with autism ended up in similar position. He went to prison but I cannot help feeling that he was targeted by this group and I strongly feel that if they had not targeted him. He went on an adult chat site. The picture was of a 26 year old woman. But in the online conversation she said she was 14 twice. I just don’t think his disability allowed him to understand what was happening. He had never brought real life younger women home. They tended to be same age or older. The consequences of all this are horrific. There was other stuff as well which really concerned me. The group referred to him as a ‘retard’ so they knew he had a disability but kept on anyway. In my opinion these groups should be banned.

@Miniroofbox

The fact it wasn’t a real person and no one got hurt is minimising the proclivities and actions of the op’s adult son.

He intended to meet a 15 year old boy to have sex

How is the op going to manage that with younger children in the house? Their friends?

What if the place she says he can go doesn’t want to take him? I sure as hell wouldn’t want that responsibility.

The op can’t have it both ways. Either he lacks capacity which was evidenced prior to this and she had safeguards in place, or he doesn’t and it’s his responsibility.

I don’t think it’s right for her to think she can say he lacks capacity when he’s been caught in illegal activity.

No it isnt. Its the reality of the situation. Intent is different to action as we dont quite yet have thought crime. They will need to look into internet history and his general capacity and what role the vigilante team actually played here. Whether this was something that would have happened if they werent on the other end. It will make a huge difference as to legal consequences as to whether this was opportunistic or a pattern of behaviour. Either way, if nobody was hurt, usually not much happens. Even if somebody was hurt, too often nothing happens.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

Also, I agree the threshold for removal is extremely high, but can you get much higher than a proven sexual predator with an appetite for children and inability to apparently understand what he's doing as wrong, living in the same house?

You have no idea what's actually going on in this house and what the risk level is. You're making huge assumptions based on a mumsnet post and making statements that you cannot possibly know to be true.

I'm sorry but we will have to agree to disagree. I've no idea if you're reading a different thread, but the OP's adult son has been caught trying to engage in sexual activity with a child. This is not something that is merely suspected, he has been caught and presumably admitted his wrongdoing. The OP has young children in the house who live with her. Her son also lives with her, as she has stated. Please tell me how I have no idea what is going on and making statements which can't possibly be true?

Can you really see this going any other way?

Social Services: "I see your adult son has been caught trying to engage in sexual activity with a child, is this true?"

OP: "Yes, it is true but he has ASD and other disabilities so lacks capacity to realise it's not ok to have sex with children"

Social Services: "do you have other children in your house?"

OP: "Yes, I've got two but as I said they aren't a risk and it's only children outside of the family my son is sexually interested in"

Social services: "Ok, that's great. No risk here, thanks for the chat. Bye"

Really?

I disagree Branleuse. In terms of having other children in the house for example this man is a massive risk.

I'd also like to correct some posters by highlighting that people very often do go to prison after a vigilante sting. In fact, a quick Google will tell you that police use evidence from vigilante groups in a vast amount of cases (albeit this is frowned upon).

Just because there was not a 15 year old behind the screen, it does not mean the OP's son isn't a risk. I highly doubt the vigilante group scoured the internet, chose someone at random and pretended they had tried to engage in sexually activity with a child. At the very least, they would have told the son their 'age'. It does not matter if it was only mentioned once, he would have known they were a child.

There a two possible scenarios here:

1. the OPs son does not lack the capacity to understand you cannot have sex with children. In this case, he is (I'm sorry) a danger to children

2. the OPs son does not lack capacity to realise there are consequences for his actions. Meaning he doesn't realise acting on urges with children leads to consequences. In this case, he is a risk

3. The OPs son knows full well what he did, despite his ASD and intended to groom a child, whether or not it was a real child. In this case, he is a risk.

I cannot see even one scenario where it would be ok for him to remain living with children.

@arrestedhelp is your son able to leave the house on his own? I know this is irrelevant to the safety of your younger children.

How did he come across this vigilante group?

I have a ds with asd and I know how they can get caught up and understand what you mean about lack of understanding.

But really this where others have initiated it. Did he seek out this "boy" and initiate the grooming or did he go on the website or whatever it it, have the vigilantes initiate and then say he was "15" and he continued it?

People with asd are also at very high risk of being groomed and can be groomed into grooming.

Agree they may well fell your younger s are at risk so think about what living arrangements you want organising for him whilst this is a criminal investigation.

Make sure you get him interviewed properly with a specialist solicitor. Many police forces also have specially trained officers in autism.

It sounds very likely he has done something criminal but there needs to be a huge look at independent intent because of the way autism impacts thought processes.

Capacity isn’t as clear cut as this though.
It could be that he understood why sexually predatory behaviour is wrong and abhorrent, but didn’t equate this situation and himself with that. Maybe the theoretical discussions about informed consent didn’t connect with the practical understanding that no matter how apparently enthusiastic, a 15-year-old cannot consent (and shouldn’t even be in a situation where Co denting to sexual activity is an issue!).

I’m absolutely not suggesting that what he did was in any way OK.

OP, I’m so sorry you’re in this situation.

The fact it wasn’t a real person and no one got hurt is minimising the proclivities and actions of the op’s adult son.

The likelihood of this being an isolated case are really small. The probability of the man being caught by a vigilante group contacting a child for the first time is very low.

Grooming is a sexual offence and the police will treat as such. He is likely to be convicted. He is likely to get a SOPO. His disability will be a mitigating factor but he will be treated as a criminal if he can communicate and has mental capacity.

Hi Op,

I'm really sorry you are going through this. It must be horrific.

Just wanted to say there are support groups for families of sex offenders and for families of people who abuse online like this. Theres StopSo and Families Outside. I've come across both due to my job so might be worth speaking to them as well to get yourself some support.