Should private schools be abolished?

[JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam]

Link.

I found this an interesting article. I did not realise that we now have one of the worst social mobility records in developed countries. I find this concerning. I am a fan of the grammar school system having been educated in one myself and having a DC who attends one. I have little experience of private schools though. If I'm honest if I had the money I wouldn't hesitate to use a private school, but that is down to the fact that I realise that it gives a leg up to the students attending, however I realise that this should not be the case.

Should we abolish private schools in the interest of fairness?

[quote Blessex]@noblegiraffe it’s because there are very few of them left so of course it’s more difficult to get in.[/quote]
Not in Kent…the whole school system is grammar/secondary modern (but they don’t call them that), and the FSM kids generally don’t get in. It’s not a scarcity issue, it’s a feature of the whole system.

Look at Germany where the same happens there.

Plenty of people in Kent send their children to private preps to prepare them for the 11+ AND pay for tutors

Not sure how that's a meritocracy

@Cam2020

No. I don't think it's schooling that's preventing social mobility. I think it's much more to do with culture, parenting and the benefits trap.

Completely agree with this.

Generally speaking, people who send their children to private school prioritise education. They would do that, even if private school wasn't an option.

I prioritise education but can’t afford private school. That’s a massive generalisation that state school parents don’t.

Generally speaking, people who send their children to private school prioritise education.

Yeah that's rubbish, you can prioritise it all you want but still need money to pay fees.

Private schools breed snobbery, and I'd like to abolish snobbery. This comment came from a friend's son, who is at private school on a full bursary: "everyone who goes to state school is a pleb".

Vile. But despite protestations to the contrary, it is indeed the common belief of much of the privately educated population. I should know, because I went to one of the big fat boarding schools. However, as an adult, I support neither private schools, nor the snobbery they breed.

I think snobbery is alive and well across all sectors of society I'm afraid.

@KeflavikAirport

How do you think those pupils coming bottom of the class would feel knowing their richer class mates are coming top because their parents can pay for extra tutoring

Maybe the rich kids would start coming bottom of the class once they stopped being spoonfed in tiny classes

Actually it’s state schools that tend to spoon feed these days. Back in the 1970s they were in the vanguard of progressive education but now it’s all starting GCSE courses in Year 7 and model answers. Independent schools have the freedom to be more inventive and to choose more interesting exams like IB and IGCSE.

Actually it’s state schools that tend to spoon feed these days. Back in the 1970s they were in the vanguard of progressive education but now it’s all starting GCSE courses in Year 7 and model answers. Independent schools have the freedom to be more inventive and to choose more interesting exams like IB and IGCSE

Well said.

@MayorGoodwaysChicken that is unfortunately 99% correct. In germany, wether you can go to university is decided after about 3.5 years of primary school. Kids start school at 6. Those with engaged and educated parents have been exposed to books and a variety of knowledge by that time. Those less lucky don’t even know books exist.
There is no way these less lucky kids can catch up in 3.5 years. No way.
So they won’t go to the grammar school equivalent, so university access - whole theoretically still possible - is very unlikely.
Even most good apprenticeships need a -levels these days, so there is a massive class divide.

I would disqualify any person who went to private school from being Prime Minister or being in the cabinet. That would be enough for me.

Actually it’s state schools that tend to spoon feed these days. Back in the 1970s they were in the vanguard of progressive education but now it’s all starting GCSE courses in Year 7 and model answers. Independent schools have the freedom to be more inventive and to choose more interesting exams like IB and IGCSE

@newnortherner111

I would disqualify any person who went to private school from being Prime Minister or being in the cabinet. That would be enough for me.

Why?

@OldScrappyAndHungry

Finland has no private schools and an infinitely better education system.

I would move there in a heartbeat if I could ❤️

Actually that’s a great idea, it would weed out the out of touch millionaire types currently doing a terrible job. People who’ve actually lived in the real world would be a start.

Yes they should. Literally buying privilege.

Actually it’s state schools that tend to spoon feed these days. Back in the 1970s they were in the vanguard of progressive education but now it’s all starting GCSE courses in Year 7 and model answers. Independent schools have the freedom to be more inventive and to choose more interesting exams like IB and IGCSE.

I’m not that old and when I was at university, reading a subject that required a heavy load of independent study, the people who dropped out were all from private schools, because once left to their own devices they couldn’t do it.

Obviously others did incredibly well, but it was noticeable how a proportion completely lacked independent study skills in a way state school pupils (who’d been used to working in larger groups with less attention, and less likely to have had 1:1 tutoring or tiny A level classes) didn’t.

No. The state shouldn't have full control (or responsibility) for all childhood education.

@RobinPenguins

Actually it’s state schools that tend to spoon feed these days. Back in the 1970s they were in the vanguard of progressive education but now it’s all starting GCSE courses in Year 7 and model answers. Independent schools have the freedom to be more inventive and to choose more interesting exams like IB and IGCSE.

I’m not that old and when I was at university, reading a subject that required a heavy load of independent study, the people who dropped out were all from private schools, because once left to their own devices they couldn’t do it.

Obviously others did incredibly well, but it was noticeable how a proportion completely lacked independent study skills in a way state school pupils (who’d been used to working in larger groups with less attention, and less likely to have had 1:1 tutoring or tiny A level classes) didn’t.

Really? I went to Cambridge in the 80s (from a state school!) and everyone I lived with was from private school - none of them dropped out, never heard of anyone dropping out unless serious MH probs. Not only did they not drop out, they all ended up being ridiculously successful

Yes n

[quote JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam]@KeflavikAirport I am inclined to agree that if all the kids of the people in power had no choice but to attend a local state school then funding would magically appear.

I hadn't considered the house price effect. This is already a problem we should be battling, I guess this raises the question - how do we stop this from happening?[/quote]
Only way to prevent house price issue would be catchment lotteries. This has its own issues though - more distance being travelled to schools, no guarantee of siblings going to same school, difficulty in getting to school, more use of cars, etc.

Re government funding if they can't use private- unlikely. But I'd imagine there might be an increase in private tutoring and even perhaps home school co-ops with tutors doing the teaching. And more tutoring will then mean they would probably end up going through the grammar system. Are we scrapping them too, in the quest for fairness?

@QueenHofScotland

Yes because there would be more pressure for government to invest more in education.

Investing more money in education would mean diverting funds away from... where, exactly?

@JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam

I am firmly in the lower income bracket. To say I don't value education is a smack in the face. I value education enough to have put the effort in to ensuring my bright as a button DC2 got into one of the super selective grammar schools in Birmingham. I did that because that level of schooling is what suits his abilities. No I didn't pay for a private tutor, just some books and time.

I don't think grammar education should be abolished - it should be made freely available in all counties. I have 4 DC. DC1 and DC3 are both attending a comprehensive school as this is what suits their abilities and needs.

So children who have parents with money to pay for tutors and books, or parents with time to spend sitting and coaching them and focusing in education still get to go to grammar and get a 'better' education then?

And why is that fair?

The old grammar and secondary modern/technical college system was scrapped for a reason.

Lots of areas in the country don't have grammar schools anyway. So then what?

If you want to scrap private schools because they create an unequal system then I'm afraid you also need to scrap all the schools that are selective surely?

And probably tutoring too.

Really? I went to Cambridge in the 80s (from a state school!) and everyone I lived with was from private school - none of them dropped out, never heard of anyone dropping out unless serious MH probs. Not only did they not drop out, they all ended up being ridiculously successful

This was Russell Group in the mid-late 2000s, perhaps the private school pupils getting that level of grades weren’t quite at the same level as the state school pupils getting the same level. Arguably the interview process for Oxbridge weeds out those who wouldn’t be able to handle independent study and as far as I’m aware is a very different study experience in any case.

Maybe

@SpaceBethSmith

Private schools are a self fulfilling prophecy. They only take smart kids so they get the highest grades.

No, that’s grammar schools. Private take whoever pays the fees.