Should private schools be abolished?

[JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam]

Link.

I found this an interesting article. I did not realise that we now have one of the worst social mobility records in developed countries. I find this concerning. I am a fan of the grammar school system having been educated in one myself and having a DC who attends one. I have little experience of private schools though. If I'm honest if I had the money I wouldn't hesitate to use a private school, but that is down to the fact that I realise that it gives a leg up to the students attending, however I realise that this should not be the case.

Should we abolish private schools in the interest of fairness?

No. I don't think it's schooling that's preventing social mobility. I think it's much more to do with culture, parenting and the benefits trap.

Completely agree with this.

Generally speaking, people who send their children to private school prioritise education. They would do that, even if private school wasn't an option.

am inclined to agree that if all the kids of the people in power had no choice but to attend a local state school then funding would magically appear

I’m not sure they would, don’t many MPs use state schools for their children anyway? Bit like removing child benefits wouldn’t stop people having children they can’t afford.

It would be better to have a system that ensures personal responsibility for children rather than being able to opt out and leave it to others. The more tax payers less benefits paid out the more money there is for health and education.

Short answer: no.

Yes because there would be more pressure for government to invest more in education.

Why not make the public schools better , so less people choose private schools? My cousins went to a private school simply because their local state one was shit. Parents had to put themselves in debt to ensure that their children received an education.

Yes. Unquestionably.

As for lack of accommodation for the extra students, surely the private school buildings could be used?

My kids are at a private school so I'm kind of biased, but I also think that taking resources away from the overall educational system would just lead to worse outcomes overall.

However, I think it would be entirely justified to make private schools do more for the public interest in order to retain their charitable status, for instance by increasing the availability of their facilities to kids from state schools, and by having a larger amount of bursaries required in order to keep that status. I don't completely understand why private schools are given charitable status with all the tax breaks that brings, while reserving their resources for the exclusive benefit of their fee paying students who mostly come from economically advantaged situations given the high level of fees.

No.

@romdowa

Why not make the public schools better , so less people choose private schools? My cousins went to a private school simply because their local state one was shit. Parents had to put themselves in debt to ensure that their children received an education.

This.

We should look at the German system for guidance.

@KeflavikAirport

How do you think those pupils coming bottom of the class would feel knowing their richer class mates are coming top because their parents can pay for extra tutoring

Maybe the rich kids would start coming bottom of the class once they stopped being spoonfed in tiny classes

But it wouldn’t matter. Because they’d be getting tutored. The class sizes wouldn’t really hold them back.

No. Abolish grammar and religious schools so that there's equal access to a decent education rather than the not so clever and not religious being left with crap choices.

They should definitely lose their charity status.

Yes - oh and state school parents also prioritize their children's education too

Surely raising the quality of state schools is the solution here? Private schools are a red herring in the debate - people wish it was that simple! Using a private school is no better/worse than buying a house in catchment, pretending you are catholic, tutoring etc. Determined people with deep pockets will always be able to engineer advantage one way or another but if all state schools offered equivalent education then it wouldn’t be an issue.

Personally I’d do some kind of drastic overhaul that abolished exams and focused on engagement in education, skills for the workplace and continuous improvement and development.

Yes

@DoThePropeller

Surely raising the quality of state schools is the solution here? Private schools are a red herring in the debate - people wish it was that simple! Using a private school is no better/worse than buying a house in catchment, pretending you are catholic, tutoring etc. Determined people with deep pockets will always be able to engineer advantage one way or another but if all state schools offered equivalent education then it wouldn’t be an issue.

Personally I’d do some kind of drastic overhaul that abolished exams and focused on engagement in education, skills for the workplace and continuous improvement and development.

All this.

(Except that I'd keep exams as they work for some. We just need more options for different aptitudes and skill sets).

Weren't comprehensive schools supposed to iron out all those inequalities in the state system?

Maybe level up the state schools so that they compete with the best independents. A race to the bottom isn't going to help.

Yes, absolutely I would abolish them, take them under state control and offer all school places via a lottery system. Completely fair. Then there would simply be no point in the sharp elbowed moving to better areas in irder to be in catchment and house prices would not be artificially inflated. There should not be an option, in 2021, for those with money to buy privalege for their children and prop up a spectacularly unfair system. I also believe that if some of these well connected parents could see hopw badly the state system is underfunded that we might see some real progress. Those with the influence and power just don't see deprivation.
Also, those saying that parents of children at private schools simply value education more ... many, many parents value education and many, many people in this country are living hand to mouth. How insulting to them to say they are not 'valuing education'. Utter bollocks. It's easy to 'value' education when you have a spare £20,000 for school fees.

YES!!

I’d like state schools to aspire to be like the best privates. Our state primary is fantastic partly because it is trying to compete with the local preps and knows it’s got an engaged parental body. Abolishing private schools will make sod all difference. The wealthy and engaged will still get to the best schools, get tutors, do more activities etc. Catchment lotteries would go down like a bucket of sick and would be unworkable outside of cities/larger towns.

No! Do this and what you'll find is a niche of state schools being "funded" by wealthy parents which in turn will be able to provide quality facilities and teaching to kids from wealthy backgrounds , massively inflated house prices in those pockets and the wealthy will always come up with a scheme to ensure that their kids education and enrichment are met!
My ds started off in private and tbh I don't see it as any different to buying a product or service . My ds now attends a state school and I can see the gap in the kids between the financially stable parents and those who aren't ! Loss of Private education won't suddenly eradicate those gaps of inequality. Quite a few of ds's friends in primary school already have one on one tutors - how does this help with equality ? We are not all on a level playing field sadly but we do need to address the barriers which hinder those who deserve a fair opportunity !

Yes definitely.

But at the very least, they should be stripped of their charitable status.

Catchment lotteries would go down like a bucket of sick

They also lead to fewer people walking to school, and more on public transport or in cars. If that policy was audited fir impact on emissions, it would be a clear fail.

The solution is of course to improve state schools so no-one would particularly feel the need to use different provision, unless they had specific circumstances

I am firmly in the lower income bracket. To say I don't value education is a smack in the face. I value education enough to have put the effort in to ensuring my bright as a button DC2 got into one of the super selective grammar schools in Birmingham. I did that because that level of schooling is what suits his abilities. No I didn't pay for a private tutor, just some books and time.

I don't think grammar education should be abolished - it should be made freely available in all counties. I have 4 DC. DC1 and DC3 are both attending a comprehensive school as this is what suits their abilities and needs.

@Bunnycat101,

You can aspire all you like but with private school income per pupil roughly 5x state school income, it is a tough ask!

The problem is that committed wealthy parents will find a way around the system, regardless, whether by employing tutors or buying expensive houses around schools with minuscule catchment areas.

Abolishing private schools would not achieve the objective of increasing social mobility. What would, however, would be making private schools justify their charitable status and VAT exemption (which some are already doing).

Private schools should be offering decent numbers of full bursaries to talented students, teaching stretch-and-challenge classes to state school pupils sixth formers alongside their own pupils, and lending out theatres, playing fields etc when they are not using them themselves.

The above would both massively increase social mobility and also allow private school pupils to develop valuable social skills that they might not do otherwise.