Why is child circumcision not treated like FGM?

[MyMabel]

Unless there’s a medical need for circumcision.. why is it ok to cut off part of a male baby genitals?

Just scrolling through tik tok and saw a video of a lady’s baby who she waited until he was 1 years old to do it instead of a newborn and it “didn’t go to plan” whatever that shall mean.. and the comments about people doing it because it’s ‘cleaner’ and ‘he won’t miss what he can’t remember having’ just shocked me.

I just can’t understand why you would want to multilateral you baby unless necessary for medical reasons.

Is there a legit age reason behind it being ok for male babies? - genuinely wondering if anyone has anything factual based behind this?

I don't think the two can be compared FGM is far, far more horrific. Most men who have been circumcised say they prefer it. They have far less issues with cleanliness etc.
A lot of men choose to be circumcised later in life
Name one woman in the western world who would happily volunteer or pay for FGM.

I don't think the two can be compared FGM is far, far more horrific. Most men who have been circumcised say they prefer it. They have far less issues with cleanliness etc.
A lot of men choose to be circumcised later in life
Name one woman in the western world who would happily volunteer or pay for FGM.

This.

There are men who convert to Judaism as adults and then become circumcised. It would be interesting to learn from them if they experienced and difference in sensation afterward.

Most men who have been circumcised say they prefer it. They have far less issues with cleanliness etc.

Is this men that have been circumcised as an adult (e.g. it was their choice) I'm presuming that men who had the procedure done as an infant without their consent would know no different to be able to comment on whether it was better or worse.

A lot of men choose to be circumcised later in life

Do you have a link that you can share on this? I wasn't aware that 'lots' of men make a choice to be circumcised later in life without there being a medical need - I'm sure that there are some but would have imagined that it was a tiny minority rather than a sizeable amount.

No one is doing the cause of anti circumcision any favours by using FGM as a comparison.

You can go on YouTube and find many men talking about circumcision in adult life.

Ones are positive, ones are negative.
One that said he lost 80% of feeling in his penis but after a couple of months he'd forgotten how things were before.

But none of that matters. There is a time and place for circumcision. That time and place is medical need and a hospital or medical centre. That is it.
Any parts being removed from a baby for anything other than medical reasons should be a no no.

@Thelnebriati

No one is doing the cause of anti circumcision any favours by using FGM as a comparison.

I think the oppposite. All circumcision that isn't for medical reasons is wrong, justifying some or saying well this is bad but that is worse is just confusing the issue.

Leave babies genitals alone.

@FanFckingTastic

Most men who have been circumcised say they prefer it. They have far less issues with cleanliness etc.

Is this men that have been circumcised as an adult (e.g. it was their choice) I'm presuming that men who had the procedure done as an infant without their consent would know no different to be able to comment on whether it was better or worse.

A lot of men choose to be circumcised later in life

Do you have a link that you can share on this? I wasn't aware that 'lots' of men make a choice to be circumcised later in life without there being a medical need - I'm sure that there are some but would have imagined that it was a tiny minority rather than a sizeable amount.

And men who have it done as adults probably needed it done for medical reasons so it is pretty obvious that would prefer it. Doesn't mean it is better for males with no medical issues.

I know it's not as simple a procedure to do to older males but I don't get why people don't wait until their sons are old enough to consent. Why is it so important to do it in such a rush to babies who cannot consent. Why do religions have to be so rigid and so prescriptive - it's old fashioned and weird. It makes you wonder if the people who decide to circumcise babies do it when they are little because they are worried that if they don't then the child won't want to do it when they are older and can make up their own minds.

Doing something irreversible that doesn't have any medical benefit to someone else's body when they can't consent is wrong.

Why do religions have to be so rigid and so prescriptive

newsflash - that's what religions are. The Church of England is very much in the minority here. Also, many religions (again not the CofE) feel that membership is quite important, and its members feel a degree of kinship with each other (they may hate them for other reasons, of course). Someone who hadn't had a brit would be considered to be cut off from the community, even if they were Jewish for most purposes.

TootTootTootToot

Why is it so important to do it in such a rush to babies who cannot consent

This has been asked many times yet no-one to my knowledge has ever answered.

But I suspect that it has to do with no man wanting parts of a healthy penis lopped off unnecessarily.

Because the procedure and healing are much easier when done as soon as possible. Adults or teens have a much harder time healing.

@MySister

Because the procedure and healing are much easier when done as soon as possible. Adults or teens have a much harder time healing.

Is that an acceptable reason for not offering a choice?

If it is so important to that man then they would surely have it done.

@myohmywhatawonderfulday

Not factual just anecodotal.

My DH is circumsised and he prefers the look of it and tells me it is easier to keep clean. His friend was circumsised as an adult for a medical reason and he prefers his 'new' penis - again, so he says.

Where as FGM is a much more intrusive, dangerous and does really cause pain and problems. So whilst on the surface level they are the same - the modification of the body, I think they are different.

I think there is no way men would perpetuate male circumsison if it were not good for them in some way. Tradition isn't enough - men are wimps and so there must be something about it that serves them.

Men perpetuate it because they want their sons to look like them. They want to feel normal and one way to do this is to continue with the habit. It happens when they are so young that they do not hold any significance to it being mutilation. There is no benefit. That your DH 'likes' the way it looks is irrelevant. Of course he does. It's his penis. It's all he has experienced.

I think that men must perpetuate it as they don't want to face the fact that they were subjected to this abuse as a baby with their parents not only allowing it but being complicit. It is probably also uncomfortable to consider that their pleasure has also been reduced so they tell themselves it is better.

Myohmywhatawonderfulday

I think there is no way men would perpetuate male circumsison if it were not good for them in some way. Tradition isn't enough - men are wimps and so there must be something about it that serves them.“

Most circumcisions are carried out on newborns, not men. They have no say in the matter.

The procedure us done by men, if its for religious reasons - are you really trying to blame women for Jewish and Muslim boys being circumcised? Its ridiculous that you think they get any say in it. What do you think happens to women from conservative religions if they break the rules?

@Thelnebriati

The procedure us done by men, if its for religious reasons - are you really trying to blame women for Jewish and Muslim boys being circumcised? Its ridiculous that you think they get any say in it. What do you think happens to women from conservative religions if they break the rules?

I know or knew Jewish and Muslim women who have put pressure on their sons/daughters or SIL/DIL to have children circumcised, boys or girls.

I listened to a Desert Island Discs episode and the woman was a politician from Somaliland. Her father was a doctor. Her mother and grandmother conspired to have her circumcised when her father was away. She said he was heartbroken and furious at what they had done.

You can't say it is all men, women are the ones circumcise girls. I have a Jewish friend who said no and wouldn't let them circumcise her son. Nothing happened to her except nagging from older women.

@ancientgran

I think that men must perpetuate it as they don't want to face the fact that they were subjected to this abuse as a baby with their parents not only allowing it but being complicit. It is probably also uncomfortable to consider that their pleasure has also been reduced so they tell themselves it is better.

Nailed it.

Nothing happened to het except nagging from older women

What did you expect? That she'd be put before a rabbinical firing squad? There is no compulsion in religion, and anyone is free to stop being Jewish, as her family clear has. Now if you'd said that she keeps kosher and sends her son to a Jewish school, that would be more interesting, but having random people saying they didn't have a brit for their DS is just pointless unless they explain their overall connection with Judaism - eg "my DS isn't circ'ed but he's just been appointed Chief Rabbi of Tiberias".

@samG76

Nothing happened to het except nagging from older women

What did you expect? That she'd be put before a rabbinical firing squad? There is no compulsion in religion, and anyone is free to stop being Jewish, as her family clear has. Now if you'd said that she keeps kosher and sends her son to a Jewish school, that would be more interesting, but having random people saying they didn't have a brit for their DS is just pointless unless they explain their overall connection with Judaism - eg "my DS isn't circ'ed but he's just been appointed Chief Rabbi of Tiberias".

Maybe look at the post I was replying to. The question was, What do you think happens to women from conservative religions if they break the rules?

I think nothing much except getting nagged as that is the experience I know of.

She was very proud of her Jewishness and her heritage, her mother escape from Germany as a small child in the 1930s and they were a very religious family. She just wouldn't agree to her son being circumcised.

@Thelnebriati

The procedure us done by men, if its for religious reasons - are you really trying to blame women for Jewish and Muslim boys being circumcised? Its ridiculous that you think they get any say in it. What do you think happens to women from conservative religions if they break the rules?

In my experience nothing happens

I live in an area where there are women who aren't allowed to date without a chaperone, leave the house without a covering or socialise with their neighbours; and I can assure you there would be consequences if they refused to have their son circumcised.