Why is child circumcision not treated like FGM?

[MyMabel]

Unless there’s a medical need for circumcision.. why is it ok to cut off part of a male baby genitals?

Just scrolling through tik tok and saw a video of a lady’s baby who she waited until he was 1 years old to do it instead of a newborn and it “didn’t go to plan” whatever that shall mean.. and the comments about people doing it because it’s ‘cleaner’ and ‘he won’t miss what he can’t remember having’ just shocked me.

I just can’t understand why you would want to multilateral you baby unless necessary for medical reasons.

Is there a legit age reason behind it being ok for male babies? - genuinely wondering if anyone has anything factual based behind this?

From what I have been told, the tip of an intact man's penis is naturally very sensitive which makes it more fun for them, whereas a circumcised man's penis tip is dried thicker skin and therefore less sensitive
Well, my DH was circumcised for medical reasons as a toddler. From my experience, he has not suffered any loss of sensation; if he enjoyed sex more, he would have died on me years ago. And no, our DS's are not circumcised. It wasn't necessary for medical reasons, so we didn't do it.FWIW, my DH always felt that he was the odd one out by being circumcised; none of his school friends had been, and he thought he was odd.

@samG76

Peanuts - pesky people from other cultures! Does it occur to you that maybe there are things that people do in the UK that others find sickening.

Such as? I am pretty sure I didn’t do anything to my babies that anyone reasonable could find “sickening”

@peruse

When my son was born (last year) our health visitor handed us a leaflet pack and one had the details of a local circumcision clinic on - how to book, recommended ages, etc which made me realise it’s probably more common than I thought.

Bloody hell that's appalling. I'm guessing there must be a lot of it about in your area.

I don't understand the religious part: if God created humans in his own image why would God want humans to start chopping bits off?

www.secularism.org.uk/opinion/2021/06/all-children-should-have-the-right-to-refuse-circumcision

Men who are circumcised as adults almost always report a serious loss of sensation. Having experienced both states, these men are the real experts. It's significant that they tend not to want their sons to have the same procedure (except in the very rare cases where there is a medical benefit.) There are lots of online support groups for men who have been circumcised.

Obviously men who have been circumcised can still enjoy sex. But the ones who were circumcised as babies can never understand what they have given up because they have nothing to compare it to.

Anyone who thinks circumcision is 'cleaner' is barking up the wrong tree. The US does not have significantly different rates of male UTIs and other infections compared to Europe and Scandinavia, where circumcision is rare.

If doctors are going to make money from performing unnecessary surgery then sadly some of them will do it.

@heathspeedwell

Men who are circumcised as adults almost always report a serious loss of sensation. Having experienced both states, these men are the real experts. It's significant that they tend not to want their sons to have the same procedure (except in the very rare cases where there is a medical benefit.) There are lots of online support groups for men who have been circumcised.

Obviously men who have been circumcised can still enjoy sex. But the ones who were circumcised as babies can never understand what they have given up because they have nothing to compare it to.

Anyone who thinks circumcision is 'cleaner' is barking up the wrong tree. The US does not have significantly different rates of male UTIs and other infections compared to Europe and Scandinavia, where circumcision is rare.

If doctors are going to make money from performing unnecessary surgery then sadly some of them will do it.

All of this.

Honestly, if people think circumcised men experience loss of pleasure, all I can say is you’re not doing it right. The shock and horror some of you display against a practice that is not done to oppress anyone comes across as very xenophobic.

@Ritascornershop

Honestly, if people think circumcised men experience loss of pleasure, all I can say is you’re not doing it right. The shock and horror some of you display against a practice that is not done to oppress anyone comes across as very xenophobic.

I don't think anyone would have an issue if it were adult men able to make the choice themselves. The objection is to babies and children being subjected to an unnecessary surgical procedure which is not without risk.

Any man who was circumcised as a child can't possibly know whether he would have had greater sensitivity if he still had a foreskin.

@MySister

People keep saying that. My sons had local anesthetic and werent left screaming in pain

So you really think that a wound from having part of you cut off doesn't hurt while it's healing. The local might have worked while it was being done but it didn't magically heal in one minute did it.

@Ritascornershop

Honestly, if people think circumcised men experience loss of pleasure, all I can say is you’re not doing it right. The shock and horror some of you display against a practice that is not done to oppress anyone comes across as very xenophobic.

Are you a circumcised man?

[quote Travielkapelka]@GrimDamnFanjo Jewish and Muslim women rarely join these conversations because there’s no point. It’s such a non issue for most Jewish men who are in the main totally unbothered that they’ve had it done that it’s not worth the breath. Obviously on MN everyone knows someone who had their penis cut off or had life long problems physical and social because of circumcision and despite never having been male they know exactly how it affects them sexually and these men must be lying when they say they have perfectly happy and fulfilling sex lives. It’s just a waste of time getting involved.[/quote]
I think it is pretty heartless to just dismiss the men who end up with their penis partially or totally cut off, it happens and yes it might be rare but that baby is somebody's son and the poor baby has to live with that and what do you think it would do to their relationship with the parents who let it happen?

It’s such a non issue for most Jewish men who are in the main totally unbothered that they’ve had it done that it’s not worth the breath

Those Jewish men that had it done as a baby without their consent have never know any different so it doesn't bother them?
That's good justification to keep doing it.

[quote ParityJ]@happydays2345

Sorry I wasn't very clear it is called "Oral Suction Circumcision"[/quote]
Fucking hell I'd never been aware of this. HOW in this day and age can this be a thing!

@Ritascornershop

Honestly, if people think circumcised men experience loss of pleasure, all I can say is you’re not doing it right. The shock and horror some of you display against a practice that is not done to oppress anyone comes across as very xenophobic.

A: do you understand what Xenophobia means? B: would you say that women who experience difficulties with sex because of FGM just aren’t doing it right?

Honestly, if people think circumcised men experience loss of pleasure, all I can say is you’re not doing it right. The shock and horror some of you display against a practice that is not done to oppress anyone comes across as very xenophobic.

At the end of the day, it doesn't need to be done. We have sanitation, there's no reason for it other than upholding tradition (why?).

This isn't like ear piercing where it really isn't anyone's business, this is a medical procedure which has lifelong impacts, or at the very least can have lifelong impacts (which are worth risking)

Throwing xenophobia out just looks pathetic on your end

Honestly, if people think circumcised men experience loss of pleasure, all I can say is you’re not doing it right

I'm shocked by the posters who's argument for medically unnecessary circumcision is that men definitely don't have any loss of sensation or are in any way concerned by the loss of their foreskin. Are these posters men, that are talking from their own experience? Do they have some studies that back up their claims? I suspect not, but I'd love to know where they get this knowledge from.

men who end up with their penis partially or totally cut off,

Talk about misinterpretation! Only the foreskin is removed!

Thing is, even if circumcision gives me the best sex ever is still very odd that parents should choose that for them when they are babies. I think if a Doctor told me he was going to do an unnecessary procedure on my baby to give them better orgasms I would run a mile!

Do they have some studies that back up their claims?
I have, as it were, no skin in this game, but I found this when reading up on pain perception:
‘Evaluation of current evidence indicates that the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks; furthermore, the benefits of newborn male circumcision justify access to this procedure for families who choose it. Specific benefits from male circumcision were identified for the prevention of urinary tract infections, acquisition of HIV, transmission of some sexually transmitted infections, and penile cancer. Male circumcision does not appear to adversely affect penile sexual function/sensitivity or sexual satisfaction.’
Source: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22926175/

There is also this one:
'Neonatal circumcision has minimal effects on penile sensitivity, according to a recent study, which challenges long-held beliefs about the sequelae of the procedure....Furthermore, as foreskin sensitivity did not significantly differ from the forearm for any stimulus tested, and given that other genital sites were more sensitive to pain stimuli than the forearm — and, therefore, the foreskin — removing the foreskin does not, in fact, remove the most sensitive part of the penis.'
Source:

I think it is barbaric - no idea why is down to be honest

I would never mutilate my child’s genitals male or female for any reason and I can’t understand why it’s not thought of the same way as FGM.

It’s disgusting and should be banned.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

Specific benefits from male circumcision were identified for the prevention of urinary tract infections, acquisition of HIV, transmission of some sexually transmitted infections, and penile cancer.

From memory the HIV bit is area based (Africa) and for the rest the benefits are minimal when you start looking at actual numbers.

As for the second study it will be subjective on the threshold of sensitivity of the men taking part.

I’m afraid I don’t agree. The outcome of effects may be different but mutilation is mutilation. One may not be as debilitating but that doesn’t mean mutilating is still ok. Just ban the whole thing.