Why is child circumcision not treated like FGM?

[MyMabel]

Unless there’s a medical need for circumcision.. why is it ok to cut off part of a male baby genitals?

Just scrolling through tik tok and saw a video of a lady’s baby who she waited until he was 1 years old to do it instead of a newborn and it “didn’t go to plan” whatever that shall mean.. and the comments about people doing it because it’s ‘cleaner’ and ‘he won’t miss what he can’t remember having’ just shocked me.

I just can’t understand why you would want to multilateral you baby unless necessary for medical reasons.

Is there a legit age reason behind it being ok for male babies? - genuinely wondering if anyone has anything factual based behind this?

@fallfallfall

It’s a personal choice families make with the consultation of a Dr. for the most part. Family history of phimosis or disorders of the foreskin. Why would this be frowned upon more than the elective c/s?

Because the vast majority of male circumcisions are nothing to do with family histories of foreskin problems (which are in any case rare even among families with them, not dangerous and able to be dealt with down the line), they're to do with family histories of circumcisions.

And most importantly, it's not a 'personal choice' by the family member most affected. To use your example, how would you feel about your dad deciding whether or not you'll have a C-section or not, without him even being able to ask you? Or to use a similarly aesthetic and non-functional example, a boob job?

It’s because the USA used to do it as standard and also because Jews and Muslims do it so often some doctors have become accredited to do them in certain countries (so it’s done properly) & so it’s seen as acceptable.

Eh? Are you being goady OP? Obviously it’s unlike fgm in that it doesn’t reduce sexual pleasure (nor impede masturbation). I’ve had partners who have and have not been circumcised - being shipped as babies in no way prevents them from enjoying sex (my partner with the most intense orgasms was circumcised). FGM is done to control women, male circumcision is not.

I’ve seen lots of boys circumcised (at brit milah) and some don’t even wake up during the procedure.

If you are comparing FGM to circumcision then you really need to do some research prior to posting This!

[quote ParityJ]@godmum56

It is well documented within Jewish religion and places online. It is not me making things up. Oral suction Circumcision, please feel free to look it up.[/quote]
😮😮😮 Right. Like we're going to Google THAT?

Oh, I see. Wasn’t trying to be goady, was genuinely interested if there was possibly a reason that I hadn’t heard of because the only thing I could see online was the Abraham story.

I think the reason why circumcision is still very much the norm in the US is because the conversation never steers toward the idea that there is anything wrong with it. We spent hours in perinatal parenting classes learning about swaddling, breastfeeding, dangers of co-sleeping, basic first aid, etc, etc. Not once did circumcision come up.

I gave birth to my son in an American hospital many years ago, and yeah, he was circumcised. The doctor came in and said they were going to take him away to do it, like they were constantly taking the baby away for tests, assessments, time in the nursery--there was very little song and dance or debate about it. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have done it.

I wasn't happy with it and when I met my Jewish husband it was one of the prerequisites of us getting married that should we have a son he wouldn't be circumcised. My mother in law sent me an article saying the Royal family are all circumcised. As if that would convince me.

@WitchBaby I think fallfallfall meant that it's more about people's perceptions or cultural beliefs about what is clean or hygienic, rather than objective facts. So we both think it's BS that shaving pubic hair makes you cleaner, but if other people disagree with us then they'll continue doing it anyway. So if people in the USA continue their perception or belief that circumcision makes you cleaner, then they'll continue doing it, even if people in other countries think that's stupid. It takes a lot of public education to change people's beliefs.

Fgm is horrendous. Circumcision on newborns is terrible. No, they are not comparable, but both are genital mutilation. Neither are acceptable without consent, but nothing will change until the people from the cultures that practise this stand up and say a collective no.

It's sickening.

Peanuts - pesky people from other cultures! Does it occur to you that maybe there are things that people do in the UK that others find sickening.

@MyMabel

But it is comparable in some form isn’t it? It’s mutilating a babies genitals for religious reasons. Just because the boys procedure has a lower chance of complications doesn’t make it right.

I haven't RTFT, but it is not comparable on the same scale. Full FGM is equivalent to having the foreskin and two thirds of the penis removed.

I don't agree with either TBH.

@fallfallfall

It’s a medical procedure done in hospitals! I’ve also had to assist with surgical terminations as a nurse, before pills. MN seems much more blasse about abortions. Somehow babies and pierced ears and circumcision two topics with misinformation and drama.

I was a nurse for 26 years and yes I have seen it done - for medical reasons!! If you as a nurse are assisting in circumcisions for any other reason than medical then I doubt very much that's within the NHS. The NHS do not recommend routine circumcision.

My own ds had to be circumcised for medical reasons at age 12, it was horrendous.

@imisscashmere

Christ, there’s so much misinformation on this thread

The OP asked why circumcision is not treated like FGM. People have gotten hung up on FGM being “worse”, which it is on many measures. However, the reality remains that circumcision can be the unnecessary genital mutilation of a child. As with FGM, that practice should be illegal.

Hear hear

[quote fallfallfall]@Leavesofautumn cleaner in the exact same way as shaved armpits vs unshaved. Waxed pubic region vs unwaxed.[/quote]
So would you be happy if your parents announced they'd booked you in to have your pubic region waxed? No big deal is it, it even grows back if you don't like it. Maybe granny and granddad should be in on the discussion as well.

How is it terrible and sickening? In what way? I’ve seen both and men who are circumcised regard it as no big deal at all. It is not a trauma for them. They enjoy sex completely. I really don’t grasp why gentile women get so worked up about it.

@Ritascornershop

How is it terrible and sickening? In what way? I’ve seen both and men who are circumcised regard it as no big deal at all. It is not a trauma for them. They enjoy sex completely. I really don’t grasp why gentile women get so worked up about it.

Because it isn't necessary, there can be complications, it is painful. People have slipped and removed the whole penis. Imagine having to explain that decision to your son.

People keep saying that. My sons had local anesthetic and werent left screaming in pain

The issue is that people are doing something irreversible and not medically necessary to another persons body without their consent.

It’s wrong. Obviously.

When my son was born (last year) our health visitor handed us a leaflet pack and one had the details of a local circumcision clinic on - how to book, recommended ages, etc which made me realise it’s probably more common than I thought.

@GrimDamnFanjo Jewish and Muslim women rarely join these conversations because there’s no point. It’s such a non issue for most Jewish men who are in the main totally unbothered that they’ve had it done that it’s not worth the breath. Obviously on MN everyone knows someone who had their penis cut off or had life long problems physical and social because of circumcision and despite never having been male they know exactly how it affects them sexually and these men must be lying when they say they have perfectly happy and fulfilling sex lives. It’s just a waste of time getting involved.

@TootTootTootToot

The issue is that people are doing something irreversible and not medically necessary to another persons body without their consent. It’s wrong. Obviously.

Well yes precisely! You wouldn’t think you would have to explain that to people really would you?!

It's fucking horrible. I have 5 boys and I've never even considered it but my youngest who's only 2 had to be circumcised for medical reasons and I found it horrific. He was fine and is fine now but I can't comprehend why any mother or father would choose that for their child

@GeorgiaGirl52

Am in the US. Had my son done in the hospital on Day 2, before he was released. Three doctors recommended the procedure (one female and two male.) Reasons were cleanliness and less likelihood of penile cancer. He is an adult now and there have been no complaints or complications. It doesn't really compare with FGM - more like docking a puppy's tail.

Docking puppies tail is illegal in the UK. And if you think that doesn't hurt, please think again.

If someone said,
"Tattoo a lion on the back of your newborn son"
You'd rightfully tell them to go away very quickly, but chopping bits off... for no real reason.. is fine to some people. It very odd imo.