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Original poster

Why is child circumcision not treated like FGM?

222 replies

MyMabel · 15/08/2021 19:19

Unless there’s a medical need for circumcision.. why is it ok to cut off part of a male baby genitals?

Just scrolling through tik tok and saw a video of a lady’s baby who she waited until he was 1 years old to do it instead of a newborn and it “didn’t go to plan” whatever that shall mean.. and the comments about people doing it because it’s ‘cleaner’ and ‘he won’t miss what he can’t remember having’ just shocked me.

I just can’t understand why you would want to multilateral you baby unless necessary for medical reasons.

Is there a legit age reason behind it being ok for male babies? - genuinely wondering if anyone has anything factual based behind this?

OP posts:
WitchBaby · 16/08/2021 12:28

@MissyB1

Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I've always found it interesting that religions that advocate male circumcision don't seem to believe that their God had designed Humans perfectly. Doesn't it say in the bible that God created man in his own image - or something like that? Do they think God said "yeah I will make this deliberate mistake to see if they spot it and do something about it".

Bloody good point!!!
How remiss of their God to make this mistake with little boys, what's he like eh?!

MinnieMountain · 16/08/2021 13:37

My dad was born in a US army hospital in 1945 so was circumcised there.

He hated it as an adult (very private person, so he must have felt strongly to mention it).

samG76 · 16/08/2021 13:47

MissyB1/Witchbaby - what a brilliant point! I'm giving up Judaism immediately and am off to McD's for a baconburger.

Seriously, though, you might spot that nowhere in the Bible is there an indication that God has made a mistake. Jewish people are commanded to have their children circ'ed, but no-one else is. This doesn't suggest it is cleaner, or that there is any design fault.

Kanaloa · 16/08/2021 13:53

@samG76

MissyB1/Witchbaby - what a brilliant point! I'm giving up Judaism immediately and am off to McD's for a baconburger.

Seriously, though, you might spot that nowhere in the Bible is there an indication that God has made a mistake. Jewish people are commanded to have their children circ'ed, but no-one else is. This doesn't suggest it is cleaner, or that there is any design fault.

Is there any reason given for why? All I could find was something about God telling Abraham all his descendants had to be circumcised but I was just wondering if Jewish people have any other reason?
samG76 · 16/08/2021 14:26

Kanaloa - no - it's like not eating ham. No logic at all. People can speculate, of course...

MissyB1 · 16/08/2021 14:32

In the New Testament baptism becomes the new covenant between God and his people. Circumcision is no longer required. Although I guess that’s irrelevant to Jewish people. Which is why I’m more mystified by certain Christians who practice this for supposedly Religious reasons, although I realise it’s not the mainstream Christians that we would think of.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 16/08/2021 14:46

Is there any reason given for why?
Well, both Judaism and Islam began in pretty arid, sandy landscapes, where I should think there would be a reasonable risk of what DH's military family referred to as 'the organ grinder' if one were camping out.

fallfallfall · 16/08/2021 14:49

Since it’s uncommon in the UK probably Europe as a whole.
In decline in Canada and probably in the US, why does MN care?
Honestly most of you have not seen one done, don’t have family that are circumcised and are just being goady.
I’ve helped with hundreds, my father was done, husband and both sons now aged 36-40. Grand children NOT.
It WAS a common practice. The WHO recommend it in certain areas and it’s not a banned procedure.
Last few I’ve assisted with (20 yrs now) were done by a urologist using anesthetic.

TootTootTootToot · 16/08/2021 14:54

I think it's wrong to do it to babies. It's their bodies and it should be their decision to do it. I'm baffled anyone could think otherwise. It's not like it can be undone.

I find the argument that it's cleaner pathetic. Maybe it involves a little extra care to keep an uncircumcised Willy clean but it isn't exactly difficult 🙄. Maybe the 'it's cleaner' argument was stronger before everyone (nearly) had access to showers and soap....

FGM is a whole other level of awfulness and it's disgusting that anyone can possible think it's an ok thing to do to someone. People that think it's ok must be very backward- I'm glad it's illegal in the UK.

Hoppinggreen · 16/08/2021 15:00

@fallfallfall

Since it’s uncommon in the UK probably Europe as a whole. In decline in Canada and probably in the US, why does MN care? Honestly most of you have not seen one done, don’t have family that are circumcised and are just being goady. I’ve helped with hundreds, my father was done, husband and both sons now aged 36-40. Grand children NOT. It WAS a common practice. The WHO recommend it in certain areas and it’s not a banned procedure. Last few I’ve assisted with (20 yrs now) were done by a urologist using anesthetic.
If you are indeed facilitating mutilation of babies then you should be bloody ashamed of yourself. I don’t need to see it done to know it’s barbaric even if done under anaesthetic
Leavesofautumn · 16/08/2021 15:06

@fallfallfall Very true, but the main thing I'd like to know is why it's such a cultural norm in the USA. The statistics are so contrasting with every other Western country, so what has led to it becoming so widespread amongst non-religious people in the USA?

fallfallfall · 16/08/2021 15:11

It’s a medical procedure done in hospitals! I’ve also had to assist with surgical terminations as a nurse, before pills.
MN seems much more blasse about abortions.
Somehow babies and pierced ears and circumcision two topics with misinformation and drama.

fallfallfall · 16/08/2021 15:14

@Leavesofautumn, possibly old military history? It was a requirement to joining the RCMP (Canadian police) in the early years.

trumpisagit · 16/08/2021 15:27

DS had a medical circumcision at 5. It was a big deal. General anaesthetic and he found it very upsetting (but necessary).
I think it should be illegal for non medical reasons.

GrimDamnFanjo · 16/08/2021 15:41

Apart from Jewish friends and one that converted and was circumcised in his 30s and an American ex ( medically circumcised) I don't have any first hand experience of this. Well literally as I'm female!

Whenever male circumcision is discussed on Mumsnet, very few Jewish or Muslim women ever take part.

Particularly in the case of Jews, circumcision is a ritual that's bound up so strongly with identity and it must be very difficult to opt out of.

Leavesofautumn · 16/08/2021 15:43

I find the argument that it's cleaner pathetic. Maybe it involves a little extra care to keep an uncircumcised Willy clean but it isn't exactly difficult 🙄. Maybe the 'it's cleaner' argument was stronger before everyone (nearly) had access to showers and soap....

So true. I've been naked with my fair share of men, and never had a cause for concern in the hygiene department. I know a few people on here have the occasional story about that smelly bloke they ended up with once, but it's never happened to me.

That's why I don't understand why so many Americans claim it's cleaner. Do they think most Europeans are unhygienic?

fallfallfall · 16/08/2021 15:55

@trumpisagit it’s a more difficult procedure in an older child with a preexisting problem. Having it done earlier is much simpler surgically.

fallfallfall · 16/08/2021 16:00

@Leavesofautumn cleaner in the exact same way as shaved armpits vs unshaved. Waxed pubic region vs unwaxed.

ancientgran · 16/08/2021 16:02

@MissyB1

In the New Testament baptism becomes the new covenant between God and his people. Circumcision is no longer required. Although I guess that’s irrelevant to Jewish people. Which is why I’m more mystified by certain Christians who practice this for supposedly Religious reasons, although I realise it’s not the mainstream Christians that we would think of.
Well Christianity is an Abrahamic religion as much as Judaism is so maybe Christians think they are included in "his people"
WitchBaby · 16/08/2021 16:02

[quote fallfallfall]@Leavesofautumn cleaner in the exact same way as shaved armpits vs unshaved. Waxed pubic region vs unwaxed.[/quote]

So not cleaner whatsoever?

MinnieMountain · 16/08/2021 16:24

But armpit and pubic hair grows back. And it’s a choice we make as adults.

fallfallfall · 16/08/2021 16:34

It’s a personal choice families make with the consultation of a Dr. for the most part.
Family history of phimosis or disorders of the foreskin.
Why would this be frowned upon more than the elective c/s?

Hoppinggreen · 16/08/2021 16:35

[quote fallfallfall]@Leavesofautumn cleaner in the exact same way as shaved armpits vs unshaved. Waxed pubic region vs unwaxed.[/quote]
You know those grow back don’t you?

SimonJT · 16/08/2021 16:38

@fallfallfall

It’s a personal choice families make with the consultation of a Dr. for the most part. Family history of phimosis or disorders of the foreskin. Why would this be frowned upon more than the elective c/s?
People having a c-section are having it done to their own body, so they can consent, they aren’t asking the Dr to perform abdominal surgery on a baby.

Would you be happy if your parent/s decided how you gave birth? If not, then why support parents chopping off bits of their childs penis?