Why is child circumcision not treated like FGM?

[MyMabel]

Unless there’s a medical need for circumcision.. why is it ok to cut off part of a male baby genitals?

Just scrolling through tik tok and saw a video of a lady’s baby who she waited until he was 1 years old to do it instead of a newborn and it “didn’t go to plan” whatever that shall mean.. and the comments about people doing it because it’s ‘cleaner’ and ‘he won’t miss what he can’t remember having’ just shocked me.

I just can’t understand why you would want to multilateral you baby unless necessary for medical reasons.

Is there a legit age reason behind it being ok for male babies? - genuinely wondering if anyone has anything factual based behind this?

@Odisia

Sorry, I should have said that I'm in no way comparing ear piercings with FGM, which is utterly barbaric.

But you are comparing it with male circumcision?

When my son was a newborn he had to have a blood test, IV catheter placed (a few times) and a lumbar puncture.
Every time he experienced pain, a little part of me died. The ONLY reason I allowed these things to happen was because I knew they were medically necessary and for his own good. I can only imagine mothers of circumcised boys feel the same. I've heard doctors in the USA (on reality TV shows) tell new moms that it is medically advised. If your doctor is telling you this and all the males you know are circumcised, you can see why the cycle continues.
FWIW I'm completely against circumcision (whatever the reason, religious or not) but think it is a lot easier for those of us in the UK to be against it vs in the USA, where it is largely "the norm".

[quote IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves]Ive never heard of that so I googled.
Jesus Christ! It is outrageous.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/herpes-babies-jewish-circumcision-ritual-link-rabbis-infants-a7620446.html[/quote]

Oh. My. God. What the actual..?
How on earth do people allow their babies to have that done to them and what sick bastard thought it up?

@ParityJ

I'm very uncomfortable with the thought of circumcision and especially of the 'tradition' of putting the penis in the mouth of the person doing the procedure. I don't see a possibly justification for it and I hope it is very super rare these days.

I’ve just googled this and can’t quite believe what I’ve read. What kind of parent would let a grown man put their baby’s penis in his mouth. Sexual abuse of a baby hidden behind a banner of religious. Absolutely horrific.

Bretoony I genuinely don't know if I am. My husband is circumcised and of course has no memory of it happening. I think I probably think that circumcision is more acceptable than piercing babies ears. There are arguable medical benefits, as opposed to something which is just cosmetic.

It is not comparable, and to do so in my opinion is making FGM seem much less of a horrific crime than it is.

I have 8 x ds's. Ranging from 29 - 6 and not one has ever had a uti and all have intact genitals...
Feeble reasoning imo.

@myohmywhatawonderfulday

Not factual just anecodotal.

My DH is circumsised and he prefers the look of it and tells me it is easier to keep clean. His friend was circumsised as an adult for a medical reason and he prefers his 'new' penis - again, so he says.

Where as FGM is a much more intrusive, dangerous and does really cause pain and problems. So whilst on the surface level they are the same - the modification of the body, I think they are different.

I think there is no way men would perpetuate male circumsison if it were not good for them in some way. Tradition isn't enough - men are wimps and so there must be something about it that serves them.

But women would of course perpetuate FGM despite it not being good for them?

That's stupid. It's mainly perpetuated by women against women in communities that practice it - presumably because if they stopped and questioned it, they'd have to acknowledge the trauma they themselves went through for nothing.

I would never agree to circumcision for my kids and do disagree with it as a practice (except obviously if it’s medically necessary) but I think it’s considered different from fgm because it’s ‘safer’ in many ways. FGM can be anything from a small cut to cutting huge parts away and sewing the rest up. It can cause huge lifelong issues. Not saying that makes circumcision okay but there is a difference.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

It was mostly brought in in the US to reduce sexual pleasure and prevent masturbation. WHAAAAT? I can confirm, on the basis of one lustful example, that if that was the case, it doesn't seem to have worked.

Circumcision reduces sensation, through wear and tear like walking barefoot gives you tough feet. So more lust is needed for satisfaction.

You mention how you are okay with circumcision if its done for medical purposes and its great if a grown male adult wants to do it . yet at the same time try to compare it to FGM . When have you ever heard of FGM being done for medical reasons or a grown woman choosing to do FGM. That in it self shows you that there a difference between the two and you are aware of it so dont play dumb with writing this silly post.

@Motherofking please google labiaplasty .

What pleasure do you gain from mutilating male children? Or do you just feel obliged to follow tradition?

I don't know much about either and to be honest I havnt done much research, but what I do know is... FGM is a control thing that men want done so that the female is not tempted to cheat when married... it is to reduce sexual temptation and is the same sort of idea as women wearing the head scarves - men see them as their property... girls have this done when they are older and it can seriously affect their mental and physical health.. sometimes they die... i personally think this is worse than the reasons behind Circumcision ... my source is a documentary i watched a few years back..

[quote Postdatedpandemic]@Motherofking please google labiaplasty .

What pleasure do you gain from mutilating male children? Or do you just feel obliged to follow tradition?[/quote]
And what makes you assume i have done it or havent done it ? What makes you assume i follow any kind of tradition either? I have no problem with people choosing to do it or not do it. I only commented on it being compared to FGM. It is not the same

@Postdatedpandemic

Labiaplasty is not what FGM typically involves... Labiaplasty takes the loose skin off... FGM typically involves the clitoris being removed completely...

[quote Newbabynewhouse]@Postdatedpandemic

Labiaplasty is not what FGM typically involves... Labiaplasty takes the loose skin off... FGM typically involves the clitoris being removed completely...[/quote]
yes and sowing the vagina closed which leads to no pleasure sexually and painful sex as long as they live. so for some of these posters on here how is that comparable to circumcision

[quote Newbabynewhouse]@Postdatedpandemic

Labiaplasty is not what FGM typically involves... Labiaplasty takes the loose skin off... FGM typically involves the clitoris being removed completely...[/quote]
And circumcision does not include chopping the boys bell end off. It just takes the loose skin off.

FGM is hardcore mutilation of children. This does not mean we allow soft core mutilation to happen. The soft core option can be kept for adults to make about their own body.

@Postdatedpandemic labiaplasty is nothing like female genital mutilation.

One is a cosmetic procedure carried out through choice, in a sterile environment by trained surgeons under anaesthetic after a lot of consultation and guidance.

The other involves a child being pinned down and knocked unconscious if they're lucky by random women who will then use a bunch of tools in a hut to slice off pieces of their anatomy and stitching them up to ensure that they are unable to participate in sexual practices leaving a small hole to urinate/menstruate.

@Newbabynewhouse

I don't know much about either and to be honest I havnt done much research, but what I do know is... FGM is a control thing that men want done so that the female is not tempted to cheat when married... it is to reduce sexual temptation and is the same sort of idea as women wearing the head scarves - men see them as their property... girls have this done when they are older and it can seriously affect their mental and physical health.. sometimes they die... i personally think this is worse than the reasons behind Circumcision ... my source is a documentary i watched a few years back..

Many women choose to cover their heads, it’s not always about being seen as property

Its because its acceptable in the western world. But why its more acceptable than FGM is a bit of a mystery.

[quote ParityJ]@godmum56

It is well documented within Jewish religion and places online. It is not me making things up. Oral suction Circumcision, please feel free to look it up.[/quote]
the history of this (not that i agree wirth circumcision) is that it was the cleanest way to deal with the bleeding. The mohel took the blood away with his tongue or sucked it away with a hollow straw. Today usually a sterile straw is used or the blood is take iff with gauze or a pipette and the mohel touches it to his lips in memory of past times. Its not some weird sexual practice...This was written in 2015 and it was rare then. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/21/rabbis-new-york-herpes-oral-suction-circumcision

PS I am not Jewish either, just well informed

[quote DoucheCanoe]**@Postdatedpandemic* labiaplasty is nothing* like female genital mutilation.

One is a cosmetic procedure carried out through choice, in a sterile environment by trained surgeons under anaesthetic after a lot of consultation and guidance.

The other involves a child being pinned down and knocked unconscious if they're lucky by random women who will then use a bunch of tools in a hut to slice off pieces of their anatomy and stitching them up to ensure that they are unable to participate in sexual practices leaving a small hole to urinate/menstruate.[/quote]
I agree its not the same but your first sentence is not always true.

My opinion stems from personal experience. My ex husband was Jewish I was not. When his parents found out I was pregnant they dropped subtle hints about cleanliness and getting him ‘done’ I responded that no one was getting anywhere near my beautiful perfect baby boy - period. I was clear that I saw it as MGM there is no reason to do it to an innocent child. It serves no purpose. I read medical paper after medical paper - many are biased due to the country that produces them or the reason / person : organisations that pay for the research.

There is no medical reason to do his and yet it fucking hurts and comes with risk. Ffs it should be a criminal offence just like it for girls.

But money talks, people in power talk and no one wants to rock the boat.

For what is it worth my exes family labelled me an anti Jewish totally on the fact I was against circumsion I wasn’t respecting their culture, their race or their religion.

My sons still have all their bits and no one will touch them over my dead body.

Livinghereinallentown Sun 15-Aug-21 20:25:18
"ParityJ
I'm very uncomfortable with the thought of circumcision and especially of the 'tradition' of putting the penis in the mouth of the person doing the procedure. I don't see a possibly justification for it and I hope it is very super rare these days."

I’ve just googled this and can’t quite believe what I’ve read. What kind of parent would let a grown man put their baby’s penis in his mouth. Sexual abuse of a baby hidden behind a banner of religious. Absolutely horrific

I have no idea what you have read...do post the link if you like...but I am betting that what you have read is not the factual truth.