WTF is happening in Afghanistan?

[nc8765]

Kabul will fall soon, and the Taliban will control the whole country.

The rights of women and girls will go back to the dark ages, along with rights for any other liberal view/s. In a few years, the UN will declare a humanitarian crisis and then what, we're back to square one?

The US is highly unlikely to commit to troops, same goes for us here in the UK. What about China? Surely a stable Middle East is in their best interest? Russia? The other 'stan nations??

I understand there are Afghans that do prefer life under the Taliban, but surely that's a small minority group?

I'm not a foreign affairs expert so would really like some help on this one!

I don't understand. If everyone hates the Taliban, how come they are the majority force?

It's a bloody nightmare.
Families will flee in huge numbers, the refugee crisis will explode again and here we go round the merry go round.

What is the best way to support afghani women and girls? Is there a specific charity? For refugees maybe?

Is so unbelievably fucking awful.

The whole situation is a disgrace. It was by no means perfect but the US & UK commitment was fairly minimal and helped to keep the country relatively stable by supporting the Afghan police & army.

Prompted by a deal with the Taliban by the Trump administration in Doha for the troops to leave, 20 years of work to set the country on the right track has been undone in a matter of weeks as those who were trying to keep the country stable have pretty much been deserted.

The Taliban will be in complete control of the country in no time at all, the rights of the Afghan people, particularly women & girls will go back to the dark ages and Afghanistan will once again become a haven as a terrorist training base and the world will once again become less safe as a result. A humanitarian crisis will ensue with people suffering horrific treatment or fleeing the country resulting in a huge rise in refugees.

Joe Biden has accelerated the process by bringing forward the date by which the troops were to leave, and the whole thing is just a giant and avoidable mess.

@MorrisZapp

I don't understand. If everyone hates the Taliban, how come they are the majority force?

The take over villages and cities through sheer force and fear. Beatings, floggings, threatening to kill/killing. They are religious extremists.

They govern through fear.

Now, of course not everyone in Afghanistan and the Middle East oppose life under the Taljban, because they themselves are religious extremists.

@Okaygreatthanks

What is the best way to support afghani women and girls? Is there a specific charity? For refugees maybe?

Is so unbelievably fucking awful.

I really don't know but you raise a good point. Who knows how long foreign aid and charities will be allowed to operate in the country for.

It’s a hugely, hugely complex situation which goes back British Empire and how it defined Afghan/Pakistan border and then has been subjected to so many different negative events; rise of Islamism, Soviet invasion and American response (which was to fund Mujahideen- those fighting against Soviets but some of whom went on to become al-Qaeda), Pakistan politics and then of course 9/11.

But in terms of most direct “recent” event which impacted current situation it is probably the 2003 Iraq war. The situation in Afghanistan by early 2002 was looking promising with the Taliban having been driven out, however the resources were then directed to Iraq leaving not enough support in Afghanistan to completely eradicate the Taliban (as well as Pakistan offering them refuge). So over years they have built back up and with the US pulling out, they are now considerably stronger.

The other matter is the enormous complexity of different tribes/religions within the region which means pulling the counter together “as one” is probably impossible.

Of course I have completely simplified what is happening, and I’m not a historian and there will be many who know much more than me (and please correct my amateur efforts if I’m completely wrong!). But it’s a huge mess and, as usual, thenBritish Empire is there at the start, and the Soviets and then Americans as well as al-Qaeda/ISIS have helped ensure that the desperate situation continues.

“Ghost Wars” by Steve Coll gives an excellent overview (up to 9/11). It’s essential to understand what was going on in Afghanistan before 9/11 to have an idea about what is happening now.

I don't know this organisation at all, so some research would be needed if people want to specifically support afghan women.
womenforafghanwomen.org/afghanistan/

I know of an excellent charity that puts all of its donations into looking after refugees in the UK and France. It's very much grass roots led with aid collections going directly from donors into the refugees hands. It isn't specifically focused on women and children though, but a lot of the people they look after are boys 16 and under. I'm happy to chat by dm for people who are interested in helping them.

If you are bloke though how awful is the Taliban for you? your life will probable carry on as normal. Your daughters will get married off instead of getting educated then married off.

I think least before this some aid agencies on the ground but think they have all left now because of security and so families on run no good or water. No doubt plenty of jobs going on new army as only way feed your family

It is very worrying

Once US pulled out, and others?, it also made it hard for U.K. to stay

I have heard parts on the radio, wanted to hear more but not always easy to listen

Why did Biden leave early? (If they did)

Is he now paying and supporting in some ways?

And if they’d stayed longer how would this situation be avoided in future

@Akire

If you are bloke though how awful is the Taliban for you? your life will probable carry on as normal. Your daughters will get married off instead of getting educated then married off.

I think least before this some aid agencies on the ground but think they have all left now because of security and so families on run no good or water. No doubt plenty of jobs going on new army as only way feed your family

They are horrendous if you are a bloke who is from the wrong tribe, or whose family has shown any resistance or who can't afford the 'taxes' demanded. They torture young men, including those under 16 in front of their families, or shoot them, they take all their property.

I'm the first to admit that I know nothing about the situation in Afghanistan but I do on the whole feel massively uncomfortable of this idea of America as World Police.

They should never have gone in in the first place. They can't be expected to remain there indefinitely.

It apparently goes way back before the British empire actually its always been a tricky hot spot

But having seen a video by a film maker called this is what winning looks like, I despair.

There is a charity that has secured funding to at least help the Afghans who assisted the military to get out with their families. Apparently its always been an issue as to what will happen to these people because the taliban will mill them.

As i said on another thread, the afghans had trillions and 20 years to build an army but took the piss instead. Same situation as south vietnam

Also there is violence for dissenters too?

So men and women, children impacted

Sounds desperate atm

I did hear Biden say he wants to help Afghan people fight rather than US people do it.

The taliban are winning because they have 40 years brutal war experience and are insanely disciplined

Previous british invasions are irrelevant here.

@Panickingpavlova

Yes I should have clarified that the Afghan issues didn’t just start when British arrived, as clearly there were different tribes, religious sects and cultures which continue to have a huge impact, but the intervention of the British was a pivotal point in the country’s history particularly around how it sought to protect “Jewel in the Crown”, India.

Just like the British intervention in Palestine had a profound (and detrimental) impact in the Middle East which is still being felt today, our actions in central and Southern Asia were also fairly catastrophic.

But yes, issues in all these areas were present before the British, we just made things much worse.

One of the best things everyone can do right now is put pressure on the UK government to accept a large number of Afghan refugees. There is not much we can do within Afghanistan, but we can influence our own government.

It is a disaster, the US leaving, but I don't think they expected the Afghan forces to collapse so quickly. Just like they didn't expect Iraqi forces to collapse so quickly in the initial ISIS offensives. Apparently the Taliban were laying the groundwork for quite some time, pressuring or negotiating with army commanders to surrender and be allowed to escape themselves.

There is a decent chance that parts of northern Afghanistan will hold out (like last time) and they will probably get a ton of covert military support, we'll see.

@BrozTito

Previous british invasions are irrelevant here.

Strongly disagree. The Durrand line - a British construct - is one of the major issues. It meant the Pashtun region was split between Afghanistan and Pakistan. So many Pakistan politicians (and the ISI and the army) are motivated to protect the Taliban to keep power.

Obviously the Pakistan situation is very very much more complex than just the Durrand line, I’m certainly not saying the British were the cause of all the issues - very far from it - but the early British interventions are highly relevant to today’s problems in the region. So to claim it isn’t is really quite incredible.

@BrozTito

Previous british invasions are irrelevant here.

Maybe to the British, not to Afghans

When British soldiers were deployed to Helmand they were taunted by locals who said they would chase them out like they did last time (i.e., the 19th century)

The British were never going to win 'hearts and minds' in Helmand, it was a stupid decision to deploy them there (made by people who no doubt felt the 19th century was irrelevant)

Sorry I should have clarified that it is the Pashtuns that are the predominant group behind the Taliban.

@Scautish

It’s a hugely, hugely complex situation which goes back British Empire and how it defined Afghan/Pakistan border and then has been subjected to so many different negative events; rise of Islamism, Soviet invasion and American response (which was to fund Mujahideen- those fighting against Soviets but some of whom went on to become al-Qaeda), Pakistan politics and then of course 9/11.

But in terms of most direct “recent” event which impacted current situation it is probably the 2003 Iraq war. The situation in Afghanistan by early 2002 was looking promising with the Taliban having been driven out, however the resources were then directed to Iraq leaving not enough support in Afghanistan to completely eradicate the Taliban (as well as Pakistan offering them refuge). So over years they have built back up and with the US pulling out, they are now considerably stronger.

The other matter is the enormous complexity of different tribes/religions within the region which means pulling the counter together “as one” is probably impossible.

Of course I have completely simplified what is happening, and I’m not a historian and there will be many who know much more than me (and please correct my amateur efforts if I’m completely wrong!). But it’s a huge mess and, as usual, thenBritish Empire is there at the start, and the Soviets and then Americans as well as al-Qaeda/ISIS have helped ensure that the desperate situation continues.

“Ghost Wars” by Steve Coll gives an excellent overview (up to 9/11). It’s essential to understand what was going on in Afghanistan before 9/11 to have an idea about what is happening now.

Great post. No surprise the Taliban get back in as soon as the Americans and other forces leave. They were suppressed, not eradicated.

Disturbingly, a member of the Afghan govt interviewed by the BBC said the Taliban were essentially still the same, just savvier at PR now.

Many countries have had involvement there esp Russians etc.