WTF is happening in Afghanistan?

[nc8765]

Kabul will fall soon, and the Taliban will control the whole country.

The rights of women and girls will go back to the dark ages, along with rights for any other liberal view/s. In a few years, the UN will declare a humanitarian crisis and then what, we're back to square one?

The US is highly unlikely to commit to troops, same goes for us here in the UK. What about China? Surely a stable Middle East is in their best interest? Russia? The other 'stan nations??

I understand there are Afghans that do prefer life under the Taliban, but surely that's a small minority group?

I'm not a foreign affairs expert so would really like some help on this one!

@Panickingpavlova

Also pics Biden never imagined the speed at which the afghan army would fall but I imagine every jihadi who can get there is there... Old isis members.. Anyone..

Biden's surely lost the plot with this sudden withdrawal? He seemed to take even US allies by surprise, which is why we're all now scrambling to get people out, even British embassy staff.

It's so disorderly as to be beyond credulity.

I work in the Defence sector. Regardless of the politics and rights and wrongs of British troops being in Afghanistan, most of us have no idea how utterly brutal the Taliban are. Usually the guys wont talk about it,but when they do....
I'm.not going to write it here as it will trigger a lot of people but Taliban fighters taking a civilian village will do things that are beyond all human comprehension to women, girls, young boys,pregnant women, the elderly...
Cannot bear to think about what some people are facing out there right now.

A lot of what happened in the Russian war on the side of the mujahideen came out in the Russian media after Gorbachev. It something you wish you could unread and unknow. Sadly, I don't think things have improved now.

Pics I don't think they anticipated how swiftly and brutally the afghan forces would be over run.

However after looking at what isis did... One does wonder what the hell they were thinking of.
Those poor staff

Hasn't Biden had to ask Saudi for oil recently?

Fuck sake, on sky news,....

Chaotic scramble to process visa for the staff who helped the forces and will be killed.

Why the hell weren't their visas sorted out before this anyway???

@Panickingpavlova

Fuck sake, on sky news,....

Chaotic scramble to process visa for the staff who helped the forces and will be killed.

Why the hell weren't their visas sorted out before this anyway???

Exactly.

The entire thing reeks of having been announced without having been planned at all. The Afghan staff must be terrified rigid, actually I wouldn't want to be an expat staffer either, as things are so chaotic that one couldn't be sure atm of extraction before the city is taken.

There was an interview with one man as he made his application. At the end of the interview, as he talked about what would happen if he wasn't given asylum, he was physically shaking with fear.

The taliban laws (not the laws about women btw this is just their general laws which are fixated) Cant believe this rancid religion still exists “A denier of veil is an infidel and an unveiled woman is lewd. Conditions of wearing veil”:

1. The veil must cover the whole body.
2. Women’s clothes must not be thin.
3. Women’s clothes must not be decorated and colourful.
4. Women’s clothes must not be narrow and tight to prevent the seditious limbs
5. from being noticed. The veil must not be thin.
6. Women must not perfume themselves. If a perfumed woman passes by a crowd of
7. men, she is considered to be an adulteress.
8. Women’s clothes must not resemble men’s clothes.

10. Muslim women’s clothes must not resemble non-Muslim women’s clothes. 11. Their foot ornaments must not produce sound. 12. They must not wear sound-producing garments. 13. They must not walk in the middle of streets. 14. They must not go out of their houses without their husband’s permission. 15. They must not talk to strange men. 16. If it is necessary to talk, they must talk in a low voice and without laughter. 17. They must not look at strangers. 18. They must not mix with strangers.” 19. All ground and first floor residential windows should be painted over or screened to prevent women being visible from the street. A Taliban representative explained that “the face of a woman is a source of corruption for men who are not related to them”. 20. The photographing or filming of women was banned as was displaying pictures of females in newspapers, books, shops or the home. 21. The modification of any place names that included the word “women.” For example, “women’s garden” was renamed “spring garden”. 22. Women were forbidden to appear on the balconies of their apartments or houses. 23. Ban on women’s presence on radio, television or at public gatherings of any kind. 24. Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams. 25. Women were forbidden from riding in a taxi without a mahram. 26. Segregated bus services introduced to prevent males and females traveling on the same bus. 27. Are forbidden to work outside the home. On September 30th 1996 the Taliban decreed that all women should be banned from employment. Some 25 percent of government employees were female. All lost their employment. Elementary education of children, not just girls, was shut down in Kabul, where virtually all of the elementary school teachers were women. 28. Are banned from studying in schools or universities. 29. Are not allowed to gather for any recreational purposes. 30. Are prohibited from practicing family planning. 31. Cannot be treated by male doctors.32. Cannot be operated upon by a surgical team containing a male member. 33. Are banned from playing sports or entering a sport center or club. 34. Have no legal recourse. A woman cannot petition the court directly; her testimony is worth half a man’s testimony. 35. Are publicly stoned and sometimes executed if accused of having sex outside of marriage. 36. Are forbidden to deal with male shopkeepers or talk or shake hands with men outside their families. 37. Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with 38. Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram. 39. Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles. 40. Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of 41. lovers are stoned to death under this rule). 42. Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place. 43. Ban on male tailors taking women’s measurements or sewing women’s clothes. 44. Ban on female public baths. 45. Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa. 46. Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone. 47. Banned celebrating the traditional new year (Nowroz) on March 21. The Taliban 48. has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic. 49. Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed a “communist” holiday. 50. Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them toto Islamic ones. 51. Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth. 52. Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap. 53. Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough 54. to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin. 55. Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily. 56. Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as 57. un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. The 58. kite flying has also been stopped. 59. Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar 60. (God is great) and refrain from clapping. 61. Ban on certain games including kite flying which is “un-Islamic” according to 62. Taliban. 63. Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed. 64. Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed. 65. All boy students must wear turbans. They say “No turban, no education”. 66. Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their 67. dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population. 68. Banned the use of the internet by both ordinary Afghans and foreigners.

Saw a survey of pre 2001 women under the taliban and 95% had symptoms of severe depression. They had by far the highest death per birth stats in the world.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

It will be really interesting to see what Russia gets up to now

No way will they get involved, at least officially. It's like the US getting into Vietnam again.

No I agree Russia will not officially intervene but it will be interesting to see what they do to try to manage the new reality, which is even more of a threat to them than to us really

@MarshaBradyo

Dreaming thanks for refugee answer below

Out of interest, besides refugee help, what would you have liked to see happen? US stay or go

Was there an exit plan that could have stopped resurgence

Many knowledgeable pp on here actually. I find it interesting but would like to learn more, not up to speed at all

This is a really hard question to answer

I think the US and the UK and everyone else have made a huge number of serious errors since 2001. They were complacent about the Taliban coming back, they tried to impose a highly centralised and westernised state on Afghanistan, they empowered warlords rather than devote enough of their own resources, they did not understand local dynamics and alienated many Afghans in the countryside especially.

Perhaps most important, they always made it clear that they wanted to leave. People are saying now that the US is just suddenly abandoning Afghanistan, which is sort of true, but honestly they have had one foot out the door since at least 2014. Trump's agreement last year made it clear the US departure was imminent. So the Taliban knew they just had to be patient, it gave them no incentive to negotiate.

Ghani's government is highly corrupt and he is very unpopular. The Taliban are also very unpopular but they are brutal and effective insurgents.

All of this together means that arguably the war has been 'unwinnable' for the last decade, all those mistakes could not be undone and there was no plan or exit strategy that could have produced a stable Afghanistan and peaceful withdrawal. This is the argument for leaving. Plus people did think the Afghan forces would put up more of a fight.

Personally I don't think they should be leaving, it was a relatively small commitment and the humanitarian and strategic consequences of leaving are going to be enormous. But I don't think anyone should be shocked that the major powers don't want to garrison the world forever.

Absolutely, everyone wants a piece of Afghanistan, It will be also interesting to see what Erdogan does. He’s now not on best terms with Russia, he’s very pro Islamic even though not quite of the Taliban kind of Islam, and very much a party that has a lot of interest there.

Another country becomes a murderous despotic regime. But hey Priti Patel will still demonise refugees from there and try and send them back

Broz tito imagine if those rules were just for black people like South African apartheid??
I feel the whole world would be doing much more to stop it..

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Absolutely, everyone wants a piece of Afghanistan, It will be also interesting to see what Erdogan does. He’s now not on best terms with Russia, he’s very pro Islamic even though not quite of the Taliban kind of Islam, and very much a party that has a lot of interest there.

Yes the Turkish role will be really interesting -- they are acting as a go between in negotiations already and have offered to secure the Kabul airport after the US/NATO leave.

www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/8/2/why-is-turkey-eager-to-remain-in-afghanistan-after-the-us-exit

It's still possible btw that a ceasefire can be agreed that will keep the Taliban out of Kabul, the next week will be crucial

A ring of military steel should be made around the city so visas etc can be processed properly for all the Afghans staff to be assisted safely out.

I’ve just posted a chat thread asking if there is anything we can do to help women and girls in Afghanistan no replies yet so thank you for the people who have given ideas of charities on this thread, particularly the Linda Norgrove Foundation

I often wonder why wealthy Muslim countries do not help. While I realise many there might not see the suppression of women, lack of education etc as a bad thing, surely they could use some of their resources to help stabilise the country.

It's starting to feel like the fall of Saigon, with the panic and the scramble to get out.

@ginghamstarfish

I often wonder why wealthy Muslim countries do not help. While I realise many there might not see the suppression of women, lack of education etc as a bad thing, surely they could use some of their resources to help stabilise the country.

Yes agreed

Tear fund

It shouldn't feel like a panic, in the main city, there should be enough troops and air power and commitment to hold the taliban at bay whilst they safely get people out.
This is what I can't understand, why are they not doing this and making this commitment, at the very least so people are not panicking??

It's clearly taken them by surprise, it's all crumbled, Biden hopes of no taliban immediately taking over and come to nothing, he was wrong...

Why not simply say we are imposing a military ring of steel around the city with air power so we can process people leaving.???

To the PP wondering if the Taliban commit atrocities against children as it may go against their 'puritanical beliefs' - people who profess such 'beliefs' usually force others to go along with these, while doing whatever they want themselves. A case of Do as I say, not do as I do..

Because there are 4.5 million people in Kabul, not everyone is going to be evacuated. Of course people are panicking! Even people who should be high priority, like our interpreters, cannot get out.

There taliban commit atrocities towards anyone.
The puritanical beliefs are rooted in violence and blood shed, those who are the beliefs there is no belief or respect for the individual and the sanctity of human life and basic human rights are non existent.

I do wonder during the last 20 years if any attempt has been made to educate the population on these basics? So they have the standard to judge incoming regimes.

The US is still insisting kabul is not in imminent danger so maybe they do know more about than they are letting on.

But they can't get out because of the unexpected quick fall of Afghanistan, mis judged by the US.

So instead of having their preferred government in power its going to be the taliban and not in months or years, but days.

So due to this massive miscalculation, they should be assuring people that they will hold the military line until people who should be evacuated are processed and safe.

It will be a stain on America to have one hair of anyone who worked for or with them in the past twenty years hurt.