I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

it's very troubling all the posters who are so quick to make excuses and preach for "understanding" when a young man is ruining his own life.

It's hard enough for hard working people who are ambitious and try to work cleverly, it's astonishing that so many posters pretend that no trying to help your own children but letting them get away with everything is the way forward. Not even going into the abuse the OP is getting when people disagree.

He's presumably passed the BTEC well enough to get into uni, but instead of being proud of him , you want to get half your greedy paws on his maintenance loan. That's appalling behaviour.

Maintenance loan is for living costs, it isn’t free spending money. So yes, it should be going towards rent/bills/food.

You actually seem to resent him going to university and getting a degree, ( you'd rather he works in a cafe..)

OP was explaining why she doesn’t think he is suited to it, I would assume as someone that has actually met him she knows him better than the rest of us.

You threw water all over him. I'm assuming we'd all be hearing how awful it was if he'd thrown water over you.
I agree this isn’t ok, I’m sure OP realises that now - desperation shows differently in us all. Him moving out will hopefully help your relationship.

Whether he was doing a BTEC or A Levels, if you were actually in a low income , you'd be entitled to child benefit or universal credit for him when he was in FE. The fact you weren't , suggests you do have an unhealthy obsession with getting his money
Or they earn enough but due to having a disabled child and other outgoings they struggle. We both earn 40k each, we don’t have a penny at the end of the month though so could house a freeloader, especially an ungrateful one.

I can't believe you are demanding almost 50% of the maintenance loan. Appalling behaviour. Think his friend has seen right through you tbh.

I would be taking more, half for rent and bills then more to replace his Dads bike that he pretty much gave away by not locking up.

@50ShadesOfCatholic

No point in trying to shame the OP. She has already admitted to struggling horribly to the extent things have gotten physical, I'm sure she feels terrible.

It all sounds way too difficult and OP it sounds as though you, your dh and son have long been locked into a negative cycle.

This is going to continue unless someone makes a change.

It does sound as though he needs to leave the family home. It also sounds as though he is in a bad space mentally. The gaming addiction, the online gambling, the inattention to basic needs - this is not good, he must be feeling awful physically and mentally.

Obviously you are in a dark place too and his behaviour is causing immense stress on the whole family.

Try not to say too much in anger just now. He does need to go to give everyone space. Maybe then you could either write to him or calm down sufficiently to try to talk to him - and listen.

I think it could be helpful to acknowledge that things must be tough for him, that you love him (it may not feel like it today but I think you do), are extremely worried for his well-being, that you want to support him but are struggling because you feel hurt by his disrespectful behaviour ie. waking the family in the night and not picking up after himself.

He isn't going to magically change, he needs to figure some stuff out, but it will help him to hear that you love him, are worried, and for you to be honest about your limitations.

Agree with this.

The relationship has broken down.

It's easy to see why and how it has hit you can't fix that whilst you also resent the fact he's controlled the family environment for years by behaving how he wants.

I don't agree expecting a child to work PT whilst at college is awful - plenty of children do it and have to do it.

The maintenance loan is for expenses and living at home can come with costs (rent/food/bills) but it sounds more like you're punishing him than expecting a contribution.

You either need to send him to live elsewhere or allow him to live at home but allow him to fail himself. No getting him up, no cooking or washing for him, no taking him places or providing him money etc.

The one rule is gaming ends at a certain time of night and make a way for that to happen. Even if it's switching off WiFi or switching off power to the plugs needed.

That's basic respect whilst you live in the family home.

You need to stop doing what you're doing now because it isn't working.

He does need to see university student support, as he can now present as an estranged student and they can help him. Of course, that also means that you cannot provide him with any accommodation or spending money. But the income he will receive will be his alone and he will then have the finances to be able to be responsible for paying rent and buying his own clothes, his own glasses, contacts, paying for materials, transport and cooking all his own food. True independence. Which is what he wants, apparently.

Yeah, he'll spin the university a yarn about being some poor little beaten Cinderella who supports the entire family on his meagre income, but if it means he is able to study if he can be arsed, live somewhere where he makes his own rules and have the freedom to make his own mistakes, well, that can only be good for him in the long run.

You will end up having to write off the previous money, but it'll save you all the stress that's happening now. Once he's responsible for himself, it's up to him.

OP, totally understand. Have absolutely been there. Have not thrown water on son but pretty much everything else. DS could say we have been physical with him because he has agressively blocked the doorway to stop us leaving the room while he is big and shouting and physical. I have shoved my way past. He has also tried to pull things out of my hands and would say I was physical about that.

I would not take his loan money, not for the damaged car or the "borrowed" money. I wouldn't give any more.

I really don't think you are doing him any favors letting him stay home. He isn't growing or developing into the adult he needs to be and it is enabling all sorts of bad behaviour.

I'd give him notice... we gave our kid a month, so he could get a job and a place to live. It was horrible but things are a million times better now and we get along well and he has a job and a place to live.

This sounds so difficult OP.

Have you tried sitting with him and being really clear about what your expectations are of him if he is going to continue to stay with you? And I mean properly. Shouting etc isn’t going to work. No one heard anything when we shout.

Re the water - don’t do it. If he is too lazy to get up then leave him. No more tussles. He is an adult and you shouldn’t be taking things from him.

He is an adult now. He doesn’t need to go to uni if he doesn’t want to. But, equally, he needs to take some responsibility - so part of my discussion with him would be that if he isn’t at uni then he contributes towards the house - a set amount per week that is Jon negotiable.

Of course the computer games etc during the night and waking you up is a joke. He sounds like a selfish shit in all honesty.

You need to be clear with him that things change now and the consequence will be him having to look elsewhere to stay.

I wouldn’t throw him out right now though.

Here is what I would do: sit him down and tell him that he has a bed and board at his house. Nothing else. You don't take any money from him, see it as a "fresh start, clean plate"!
He will have to manage his own money to buy clothes, train fares and other items he needs for uni from his loan.
Give him a small budget plan for his fares, so he doesn't run out of money...

If he needs more money, he needs to earn it. If he does not like it, he is free to move out. (I know, all this will probably fall on deaf ears, but you need to stay very strong for his own sake. )
My friend has done something similar with her DD (17), wheshe was very "uncooperative". Basically lump it for the next 12 months and then she is free to go as soon as she turns 18... it worked, her DD is 19, still at home, has a full time job, pays towards the bills and helping around the house.

And no more money - no more dinners made for him. He knows where the fridge is and js able to make food himself.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

With regarding pouring water over him, can anyone suggest other ways in which to get an adult out of bed without violence?

I guess I should have just left him there, so I got done by the truancy officer and he got kicked out of college then?

The tussles were mutual shoving I suppose trying to get the phone off him or get him off the PC with him pushing back.

No one else lost patience when a teen doesn’t come down for dinner, answer you calling them, or listen to anything you say as ‘I’ve got headphones on’ as if that’s something that’s out of their control?

Ok to shout and swear at 3am waking everyone up then refusing to take headphones off and get off game?

You need to decide if he's an "adult" - in which case, obviously leave him in bed to deal with the consequences Or a "child" who's absence from school would trigger a truancy officer? It's not both at once is it?

Throwing water on someone is assault, having a "tussle" is violence. And tbh you've probably minimised a lot to put across your side of the story.

Either willingly spend £200 for contact lenses or spend it with clear and agreed conditions but don't spend it and resent it.

• by the way op, whilst I think your going about this from the wrong way, I can see that your at the end of your tether and with a another dc with sen etc your struggling

Be kind to yourself also!! It's not easy.

you sound abusive. He's better off leaving.

Can you imagine if you came on here to tell us your husband was treating you like that?

It is NEVER ok to lay hands on another person, to throw water over them, to 'tussle' because they won't do what you demand.

There are plenty of other ways to handle someone addicted to gaming without having to get physical with your child.

I have never ever said this before, i feel sorry for him, you sound like a dreadful parent, and ought to be ashamed of yourself.

And the posters justifying it with 'you're at the end of your tether' that is the excuse of abusers.

Love all the posters sticking up for a woman's right to assault her adult children.

I don't he's no angel. OP, but some of your behaviour, even based on your description of it, is abusive. I imagine his version of events paints you in an altogether worse light

we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head

So he games
You get physical
Nasty all round

Maybe best he does leave and says you estranged so he gets full maintenance
He doesn't have to give you any maintenance loan. It is his loan not yours

EmotionalSupportBear

wow

what a nasty post. Is your user name ironic?

You need to take a step back, let go of all your anger, frustration, disappointment and hurt and have an honest think about how to move forward. If he is as bad as you say then it is time for him to move out but not on from any relationship with you. You need to lay down your boundaries and the consequences of not following them. You need to be calm and not be reactive. Remember that he probably will change in the future and you will want him in your life, do nothing in the heat of the moment. Stop giving him money etc and get him to sort out uni accommodation, this is a positive option for him and a good first step to independence. It is ok not to like your child, or how they are behaving but it is important to let him know that you still love him.

I'm sorry but I don't think you have parented him correctly at all. Falling asleep in class during GCSEs? The onus is on you as parents before they reach 16 to help them resolve their problems, to create healthy boundaries and balance for sleeping, gaming, working, physical exercise etc, It seems as if you have left him to his own devices and then become accusatory when he kept failing.

He might be lazy, but how much effort have you put into parenting him when he was struggling? Both my DC have gone off the rails at various times from young to late teens and it is exhausting keeping your eye on the ball all the time, But it pays off.

OP, if the ages weren’t different I’d be convinced your son is my brother!

To be clear, have you or your partner actually ever hit him?

My brother was incredibly violent to me (as was my mother tbf) but he never experienced violence and he was such a little liar that he told his gf at the time he used to get burned with hair straighteners as a child. Pure lies.

My parents repeatedly mollycoddled my brother, and his behaviour escalated, into violence towards them, stealing from his elderly grandmother and stealing jewellery from my mothers safe (worth close to £10k). Like your son, he messed up GCSEs, A levels, b tech and because he was so mollycoddled, messed up Uni, resat the same year 3 Times. To this day he can’t hold down a job, to the extent that he lied to my father on his death bed about being drafted into the navy as a commanding lieutenant (even though it’s not an entry level position).

My advise would be this boy needs tough love for his own good.

I’m not sure why there is uproar about asking for some of maintenance loan to cover his living costs

@alltheemptyfields

EmotionalSupportBear

wow

what a nasty post. Is your user name ironic?

its not nasty, its truthful, the ops behaviour is beyond shocking.

Can you imagine if you came on here to tell us your husband was treating you like that?

How stupid are comments like this?

If a husband was trying to parent you, OBVIOUSLY you'd walk out.

What do you want the OP to do? Walk out of her own home, because of the behaviour of a child? Leaving the other children in the process?

@alltheemptyfields

EmotionalSupportBear

wow

what a nasty post. Is your user name ironic?

Not a nasty post at all. It is accurate.

the OP's son sounds difficult and some of his behaviours need to change. But by her own account the OP physically abuses him. He is the victim here.

The posters defending this, is this how you parent? Throwing water over your child, reading their private messages, pushing and shoving them? I’m amazed, I really didn’t think so many found this an acceptable way to treat somebody.

@alltheemptyfields

Can you imagine if you came on here to tell us your husband was treating you like that?

How stupid are comments like this?

If a husband was trying to parent you, OBVIOUSLY you'd walk out.

What do you want the OP to do? Walk out of her own home, because of the behaviour of a child? Leaving the other children in the process?

The first thing she should do is stop physically abusing her child.

Then go from there.

He may well be better out of the environment, for his sake.

Good god, I didn’t put this in AIBU for a reason but still got the pile on with people not bothering to read my OP properly!

Just to clarify, we got the contact lenses as DS constantly breaks his glasses from sleeping in them and while we were waiting for them to be fixed he asked if I could get them for him and he’ll pay me back when he got a part time job which never happened. I’d got him contact lenses a few times before and he couldn’t be bothered to spend the time putting them in which is why I initially refused and now he has 6 months worth sitting in his cupboard. That’s how lazy he is! I’ve just cancelled the direct debit as he’s not wearing them. I had to pay for my own lenses at 16, my parents never paid for anything after I left school!

The water ‘torture’ has only happened after numerous attempts at getting him up, not as a first resort and I’ve always threatened it before I’ve done it because I’m sick of repeating myself. I’m not a bloody robot! Did you see where I said he missed his ENGLISH GCSE resit as he didn’t get up! I got a call from his tutor later than morning telling me. I’d asked him when it was but didn’t get an answer. I’d have drenched him that morning if I’d known!

He did not pay for his BTEC. As he’d already wasted a year after ditching his MATHS AND SCIENCE A-LEVELS purely because he couldn’t be arsed to put the effort in, after promising me he would, for an ART course, I said if if he was that serious about it he could pay for his own materials (and there was a lot needed) just the studio fees were £150 so he needed to get a part time job to cover it. We already had to support him for an extra year in college.

No one has commented on him waking his Dad up in the early hours when he has to get up for work at 6am and drive a HGV all day! Yeah poor kid that we ‘tussled’ to get him off the PC and took his headphones off .

He will get almost £9k in his maintenance grant (London). £2800 (might be more) is his first payment. We are asking that he gives us £1k to cover extra money we have given him after he lost his job (totally his own fault) and had to pay out. We have not charged rent or board. Paid for glasses, dentist and phone obvs. Contact lenses, going out with mates, clothes, he should be paying for himself over 18 with a part time job.

I left home at 18. My parents wouldn’t support me going to Uni. I had to pay rent from 16 while still at college!

We won’t charge rent while he is at Uni (as we didn’t for our oldest) so after travel he will have around £600 a month to himself (after his first payment being less due to paying us back).

The Uni accommodation is 10k alone without food and I cannot afford indulge him after what we’ve been through with school and college. Would anyone else?

When we found out he got his Uni course (after much worry as his tutor told us he probably wouldn’t and we had to intervene again so he did work hard in the last month) we offered to take him out for dinner, or give him money to take his friends for dinner, as we did after his GCSE’s, but he only wanted a takeaway at home which we got him. I did think about getting him a cake, shit what a terrible mother I am for not doing so! We opened the champagne we’d been saving since Christmas so he knew we were happy (and relieved) for him.

Again, I’d like to know what posters would think would have happened if we just left him to sleep his life away?

He’s perfect fine when online with his mates. I’ve asked him a many times if he’s depressed and he insists No. I’ve told him numerous times to get a GP appointment to check his bloods although I know it’s simply that he chooses to stay up all night that he’s sleeping in the day.

A few months ago, we had a big discussion (after he missed his English) where I practically begged him to tell me what was going on, said it didn’t matter what it was, we’d sort it. He tried to blame it on splitting with his girlfriend (of a month) and we talked about him not mucking up his education for that and to start exercising for his MH but he refused! I know damn well it was because under any sort of pressure where he has to work hard and focus, he can’t cope!

And yes, not coming down to eat a decent meal that someone cooks for you from scratch every night is fucking disrespectful, and not even bothering to put your plate in the dishwasher is too!

We were so close when he was younger but I’m only human and react in face of extreme provocation.

Of course his friends have only got his side of the story too! This particular friend, we’ve known since he was at primary and I know his Mum.

@alltheemptyfields

Can you imagine if you came on here to tell us your husband was treating you like that?

How stupid are comments like this?

If a husband was trying to parent you, OBVIOUSLY you'd walk out.

What do you want the OP to do? Walk out of her own home, because of the behaviour of a child? Leaving the other children in the process?

why would the OP walk out, she isn't the one being abused here.