I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

And then the grotesque blaming of him ‘pushing her to the end of her tether’ which basically means I wouldn’t have to abuse you if you didn’t get me angry with your laziness.

@SudokuZebra

Erm op, you don't sound great at all. You are reading your 19 year old son's phone messages, that is controlling.

He's presumably passed the BTEC well enough to get into uni, but instead of being proud of him , you want to get half your greedy paws on his maintenance loan. That's appalling behaviour.

You actually seem to resent him going to university and getting a degree, ( you'd rather he works in a cafe..)

You threw water all over him. I'm assuming we'd all be hearing how awful it was if he'd thrown water over you.

Whether he was doing a BTEC or A Levels, if you were actually in a low income , you'd be entitled to child benefit or universal credit for him when he was in FE. The fact you weren't , suggests you do have an unhealthy obsession with getting his money

I can't believe you are demanding almost 50% of the maintenance loan. Appalling behaviour. Think his friend has seen right through you tbh.

Exactly this. Awful behaviour from throwing water, tussles and demanding half his loan! Cant believe what I'm reading. I sincerely hope you reconsider the demand for money.

@wewereliars

He has got into university, more than a lot manage, and even that seems to irritate the OP

He has got to move our ASAP.

And its not that uncommon for families to go through this - even the wrestling/fighting. There is a strong reluctance from the young adult to mature and thrive which could be down to marriage break up, SN, illness, guilty parenting, shite parenting ect. Add that to the parents feelings of helplessness, exasperation, disrespect and its going to come to a head.

This young man needs to move out - if only to 'wake up'

Left him to his own devices @robotcollision. I bloody wish!

Your son has had some good advice from his friend. You are abusing him. You should give him his student funding back so he can afford to move out.

People are being goady, OP, try to ignore them. There are always those who want to troll and twist a situation.

I really feel for you OP, and while some of your responses to your son's behavious have been far from ideal, I think it's understandable.

I think him moving out will be best for all of you, tbh. He can go to a uni further away and get a bigger loan.

Some time apart will probably do you all good.

What is kids best interest here?

Despite the posters trying to start a bunfight and being abusive for the fun of it, realistically what is best for the kid?

Let him waste his life away, and keep a rude behaviour at home,
or start being very strict and forcing him to wake up and take responsibility, and become financially independent?

It's easy to be rude and lazy when you know your laundry will be done, your food will be bought and cooked for you, your pocket money offered.

When you have to pay your own bills, you have to do something.

It isn’t really ‘trolling and twisting.’ OP has admitted she did these things and she doesn’t even sound like she’s reflecting on why they were not good responses and just further escalated the situation.

Although I do agree it would be in this young man’s best interests to move out into accommodation if possible.

"The water ‘torture’ has only happened after numerous attempts at getting him up, not as a first resort and I’ve always threatened it before I’ve done it"

oh, you warned him first.. that makes it ok does it?

There you go abusers, so long as you warn your spouse you're going to be violent towards them first, its a free pass!

The relationship has become untenable.

You both resent each other. You are both toxic (sorry OP). Draw a line, tell him to move out and fend for himself. Hopefully the peace in the house will bring some joy to the remaining members of the family.

Good luck

"when you have your own bills you have to do something"..

Or not when you feel worthless and have no motivation to do anything at all

This whole situation is ridiculously toxic. He should leave. Asap. It's what is best for the both of you.

What degree is he doing. Maybe encourage him to attend Leeds or Sheffield hallam cheaper rent.

@nc8765

The relationship has become untenable.

You both resent each other. You are both toxic (sorry OP). Draw a line, tell him to move out and fend for himself. Hopefully the peace in the house will bring some joy to the remaining members of the family.

Good luck

I completely agree.

I'd be wondering about depression, ADHD or ASD. Has this been explored with a Doctor?

Sounds like there is huge need to repair relationships and rebuild trust. Would you consider family therapy?

@Kanaloa

It isn’t really ‘trolling and twisting.’ OP has admitted she did these things and she doesn’t even sound like she’s reflecting on why they were not good responses and just further escalated the situation.

Obviously there will be differing opinions, and I'm not saying everyone who disagrees with me is trolling. But there are people claiming - numerous times - things that OP hasn't done, or making statements that indicate they haven't read her posts. I don't think she should waste her time with any of these.

I agree that it's bad to pour water on a kid. But I think OP should listen to people who can acknowledge that without completely re-making the situation into something it isn't.

you warn them you're going to confiscate something.

you warn them you're going to turn the internet off

you warn them you're going to stop cooking for them/doing their laundry/paying for everything/ and they can feed themselves/clean their own clothes/suffer the consequences of their actions.

You do not get physical/violent with them. You do not throw water at them, 'tussle' with them (read shove/push/fight with them).

Op, you sound so so angry with him. The historical list of misdemeanours stacked against him is huge. In his shoes, I’m not sure I’d know where to begin. All I do know is that rarely does generating shame in a young adult do much good.
You barely acknowledge the difficulties this year group have had motivating themselves during covid. My DS is conscientious but he found his motivation and MH went down the pan towards the end of upper sixth.
The step from GCSE to A level is known to be a big stretch ….have you considered that he just wasn’t suited to those A levels? Given the circumstances of the year they’ve just had, are his achievements really that bad?

If that was my adult son he would no longer be in my house. It sounds like you've done all you can to help him and get him to school etc, even if it hasn't always been the 'right' way but he is a grown man now and it's time to stand on his 2 feet.

@ParistoLondon

This whole situation is ridiculously toxic. He should leave. Asap. It's what is best for the both of you.

I’m thinking this too ^^. As a family, sounds like you need a major reset button pressing.

Oh OP you are so angry. We get it, you're hurt, you feel betrayed, you want him to buck up and to appreciate what you've done for him.

It isn't true to say no-one acknowledged your son waking the family during the night, perhaps read back through the thread. Some posters are genuinely trying to be supportive and some have also shared their oen struggles with teenagers behaving badly.

Here's the thing. The situation is untenable. You are all hurting horribly and no amount of going on about it is going to change that right now.

You need to do something different and it does sound that it's time for your son to move out.

You really need to cool down before you say any more to him though, you are not going to help matters by ranting. Words hurt and you can't take them back.

It strikes me that your own parents were not terrifically supportive and that you still feel hurt by this. You have tried to do so much more for your own children. But your son won't understand any of that, what he'll be taking in is your anger and disappointment.

I know you've asked him whether he's depressed but in all likelihood he has no idea what his mental condition is, he won't have the knowledge or ability to make a clear judgement on that at his age. His behaviour is telling though, no-one can be living like that and still feeling OK.

You cannot change him but you can change your reaction to his behaviour. I think you would do well to get some professional support for yourself. You need to be heard and figure out a way forward.

@Panickingpavlova

"when you have your own bills you have to do something"..

Or not when you feel worthless and have no motivation to do anything at all

Some chicks need pushing out the nest to spread their wings. Harsh but true.

What your advocating is that he stays put. As a family this is not working - its become toxic for everyone. He needs to move out and OP support him from a distance to become an adult.

Helping our dc isn't just about giving them money and getting them out of bed

It's also helping to build self esteem and trust and a dialogue and looking at what behavior tells us

Then working with that.