I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

OP he needs to move out asap. I would actually tell him to go to his friends tonight.

The whole situation have become really toxic. Pouring water over him shows that you also have lost control.

He has been moddycoddled, your still paying for his phone for Christ sake (and wrestling it off a bloody 19 year old!) The whole thing is bonkers!

I had a small child and running a three bedroom house at his age. He isn't a baby but you have allowed this situation to happen and you must take responsibilty for that.

He moves out immediately for your long term relationship and for all or your mental healths. I'm sure his mate will let him bunk up for the night.

Do not however take a penny off him in repayments. You gave him that money knowing full well what he was like. Tell him to use it as a deposit for a flat and get a part time job whilst he studies because in the real world most do anyway.

You are dragging an adult in to adulthood. You can't force him to be an adult but you can draw a line under and make him move out.

My eldest moved in to a flat share when she was 18 and it staggers me when these adults are rolling round in bed with their mothers still dragging them out of bed and dropping them off at work.

"not been strict enough"

What you don't understand is that to do anything people need to be inspired and feel they can.

How can they feel inspired if they have low esteem and parents who batter them further?
Why would they want to do anything?

Build the self esteem, open channels of communication, be kind, don't spend money you can't afford and don't keep a tally of what you have spent.

Be positive and look for the positive.

Be encouraging and kind

@SudokuZebra

Erm op, you don't sound great at all. You are reading your 19 year old son's phone messages, that is controlling.

He's presumably passed the BTEC well enough to get into uni, but instead of being proud of him , you want to get half your greedy paws on his maintenance loan. That's appalling behaviour.

You actually seem to resent him going to university and getting a degree, ( you'd rather he works in a cafe..)

You threw water all over him. I'm assuming we'd all be hearing how awful it was if he'd thrown water over you.

Whether he was doing a BTEC or A Levels, if you were actually in a low income , you'd be entitled to child benefit or universal credit for him when he was in FE. The fact you weren't , suggests you do have an unhealthy obsession with getting his money

I can't believe you are demanding almost 50% of the maintenance loan. Appalling behaviour. Think his friend has seen right through you tbh.

Are you the son's friend? Because this is a ridiculous take on OP's post.

@wewereliars

Youn should not be taking any of his maintance loan off him. Not on at all.

But... he will still be living at home. If OP can't afford it why shou'dn't she require him to use some of it for his living at home expenses.

Even if she can afford it why shouldn't she require him to pay some bed and board?

But I agree with others. He can have all of his loan. But OP you must stop treating him like a kid that can't. Let him... whatcer it is he does, let him.

Set him some ground rules and bloody well mean them. Even if it does mean turning off wifi etc when you got to bed.

If he doesn't get up, leave him, no water

If he is on a PC that someone else wants/needs turn it off. Take it away. Remove his access to it. Assuming it isn't his he doesn't get to monopolise it .

Show him the washing machine, the cooker etc. Tell him he needs to use them or do without. And tell him he smells, assuming he does! Just tell him he smells like someone who hasn't bothered with a shower!

You have to change what you do if you expect him to change his behaviour.

Sounds like you don't really enforce proper boundaries with consequences with your son. You just react aggressively to his bad behaviour which is not useful and serves no purpose other than probably making your son feel even more like he's in the right to be defiant of you and your husband. You need to get your anger in check, and you need to stop paying for his mistakes and giving him money for clothes and entertainment. You need to lay down the rules of living in your house, and make it clear to your son that he'll be out if he chooses not to comply with these rules - and then actually keep your word and enforce the consequences. Really, just pack his things and have them waiting for him outside your house. I'm sure once he realises how cushy he's got it at home he'll return to you with renewed energy and a better attitude.

@GetTaeFuck And what you're all doing isn't abusive at allllllll, is it?!?!

I've just read the OP aloud to my 19 and 16 year old who are disgusted and horrified at the behaviour of this teenager.
Telling his friends he's "ashamed" of his parents because they're "poor". Vile.

All the empty fields.

It was merely an observation on your comments

@Deathsquito

Water is not "violence" Some posters make it sound like someone hosing down a tiny 5 year old, not pouring some on the head of a young adult.

Spoken by someone who has clearly never felt (or can empathise) with the physical shock and fear that being woken that way from a deep sleep causes. It absolutely is abuse and not normal behaviour from an adult.

This. It's not OK.

He needs to move out for everyone's sake. Completely untenable situation.

It sounds difficult on both sides, but I think your dislike for him comes through really clearly here - your DS will be very aware.

I am curious - did you praise him for his BTEC? Do anything fun to celebrate? Do you ever tell him when he has done something well that you're proud of him? Do you tell him you love him?

It all feels so negative and miserable all round and that your method is to beat him with a stick whenever he does something wrong but you can't seem to muster anything nice to say about him. He doesn't even sound vile - just really lazy and likely depressed.

Let the entitled brat move out, in fact pack his stuff and leave it on the doorstep.
He'll soon realise how much you have done for him when he is forced to get a job to pay his way through uni, if he actually sticks at it.
You sound at the end of your rope with him.

Sorry you have had such an upsetting time trying to do the best thing for him

I think it’s time for you to detach -
you have both been abusive to him pouring water and trying to remove his headphones

I would apologise for that and I wouldn’t demand any of his loan but would definitely make it Crystal clear to him that you will not be paying out for the results of his laziness in future. He is now an adult, a young adult but now is time he starts being responsible for himself and you step back

I would make it clear you will continue to provide food and bed while (if) he studies but he must learn to manage the rest and suffer the consequences or reap the benefits of how that pans out for him

And I would seek advice on support for addiction for him

Flying rabbits I agree so negative and the thing is, op really needs to think if she means it about cutting her loses with him because this could literally make or break her relationship with him.

One day he will become hopefully, a happier young man with a lovely gf and dc...

He's got free room and board, and any support he needs

is aggressive and lazy
refuse to work, to study, play video games all night

He sounds like a dream. Bloody hell, the kid is 19! Should be the best years of his life, and the OP is trying , supporting him financially, offering suggestions and solutions.

I stand by my point, he was allowed to become lazy, the OP was far too nice and supportive when he needed a kick in the butt (figuratively, before the word abuse comes back), and it's not too late to give him one now (figuratively).

Yes, it's normal in a way to want to be up all night and sleep all day at that age. But it's also normal to be a mean parent and not allow it.

Hello OP, it's hard being a parent and most kids are easier than yours. I have had a similar son.and he has clearly ADHD and autistic spectrum. I understand you're trying to do your best for your child. Other parents with similar children might be able to support you in a way that parents online can't. If he's ADHD then a university/ college course could be impossible for him as he has so few of the self management skills. If he does make it there then please encourage him to have a full educational special needs assessment as there is a lot of help available if you press the right buttons. You need to stop picking up his pieces soon. Try to be more understanding of him and learn to listen to what he's saying. He could be very depressed. He may carry on for a long time like this so you could help him explore what help is available. At the end of the day it's tough being like him and he didn't choose his genetics or personality. Has your DH opted out? It's also tough for kids to have a disabled sibling as they take so much energy. Perhaps there are some genetic weak links running through your family.
Hope things improve.

50ShadesOfCatholic and fatboyslimschins

👍🏼

OP you have my sympathy and empathy. My DS was very similar. However, he did come good in the end. There is hope. Boys in my experience mature later. My DS has estimated he spent 2 full years in hours playing a computer game! (He doesn't touch them now and despairs when he thinks back). We had a few frustrated tussles as well - most memorably him being locked out in his underpants in the rain.

It sounds like it would do you all good if he did leave home. If you are on a low income then he should get a full maintenance loan. My DD paid for everything including accommodation and saved part of hers. It is quite generous. Stop taking responsibility for him or he will never do so for himself. He is hiding in that bedroom, scared of living.

The discussion of 'abuse' between him and his friend may be because then he could be entitled to a full loan, so it may be a tactic rather than personal.

I would not take part of his loan. Tbh I don't think you have done him any favours paying for so much, it enabled him to stay infantalised. But it's done, it's on you I'm afraid. You need to start fresh, treat him like the adult he now is and he is more likely to take responsibility and act like one. Also the fact that he got the merit, despite not working that hard, shows he is bright and has potential. He might not show it but he would no doubt secretly love some praise for it. I know that may feel hard right now, but when things calm down! Things will get better I'm sure. Good luck to you both.

@stepupandbecounted

Please can you tell us op that you are going to help him, and support him and recognise that some of this could and should have been avoided?

Stop gaslighting the OP, please. What you're doing is very obvious.

Having to move out and pay his own way might be the kick in the butt he needs.

Single young male get next to no help, he will have to earn his cash.

Or giving him a last ultimatum with strict conditions, but sticking to it.

It doesn't mean that you cant' tell him as his parents you want to support him the best you can, but that's the only way you can see with his current behaviour.

This is really troubling and upsetting to read, and even more worrying that several other posters also think that pouring cold water over a sleeping person, and “tussling” with them is ok. The OP has been rude to anyone who doesn’t agree with her. I am sure he is infuriating ( i have raised 4 boys through teenager years, and I teach 11-18 year olds) but nothing justifies your behaviour towards him. This is abusive and in addition invading his privacy is also unacceptable.
He may well have a gaming addiction but nothing excuses, or makes acceptable your own behaviour towards him.
In addition you are not on a low income if that is his maintenance loan, and it is reduced for students living at home as the state presumes the parents will provide food etc.

I do not think you are being abusive. You’re at your wits end! Young adults can be a handful. My dd was an absolute breeze. My now 20 yr old has had his moments. My 18 yr old has caused me despair to say the least, but overall, they are good lads. I’ve learnt not to sweat the small stuff. Plates on the side, towels on the floor (as blooming annoying as it is, I just pick them up....saying ‘pick your bloomin towels up!’)
Your son sounds capable, but somewhat lacking in ‘mo jo’. Is it possible he has ADHD? My 18 yr old does and it contributes a lot to his conviction in life. Eg, if he’s not interested, he really struggles to focus. He loses so much. You mentioned 2 bikes. My son has even borrowed a friends bike before and literally forgotten he had it and walked home leaving it behind. Bus passes, wallets, bags. Headphones, phones are constantly left on buses, parks, town. He leaves cupboard doors open, cheese open in the side over night. It’s literally daily.
The minute I got off his case and began looking at what he did do right, our relationship became so much better. My son is one of the loveliest guys you could meet, but at the same time, he’s highly infuriating and frustrating. He finds criticism really hard. He takes it as a personal attack, so I take care to pick my moments to talk things through. I don’t feel you e done anything wrong, I just feel you’re all caught up in a ball of frustration. I had to approach the ADHD thing very sensitively. At first my son was hurt, but then he became really on board. He even researched it himself. YouTube is a great place to start. Plenty of clips by young adults with ADHD explaining it really well. It’s certainly not the ADHD we grew up with. So much more is understood nowadays. Try talking when you have nothing to specifically raise with him. Make sure you listen too. My 18 yr old often points out that I do all the talking......(he’s not wrong 🤣) But he has really good things to say and perfectly well expressed and valid points of view. Best of luck x

"should be the best years of his life"

Yes. So why aren't they.

I'd bet my last penny because he's got low self esteem and doesn't know what to do or how to do it.

As an aside op, years ago I asked on here about myself dd

Every time we had dinner she got quite bad tempered and sometimes would leave the room, it made me feel paranoid every time I ate and it was quite upsetting and because I was upset she was upset and argumentative back.

So many posters said what a rude girl, she needs to learn her manners, tell her she can't leave the room, make her down this and that tell her off.. How rude op, and often phrased "the little madam".

Then some posters came on and said, do you think she may suffer from misophonia?
I looked it up, asked her how she feels when she hears me eat, she said it makes her feel instant anger.
I did my research and we simply agreed to let her leave the table as and when and it was all fine again.

Thank goodness for the posters who told me to look at the behavior and work out what she was trying to say.

Rather than go down the "rude little madam" Lane.

OP, I feel for you, that sounds so difficult. It's clear that you need space from each other, ideally he should move out now.

It sounds like he's very immature for his age and he needs to learn the hard way that his choices have consequences. I don't think you've been abusive towards him, but you've clearly lost patience and have started losing your temper, so have crossed a line and got a bit physical with him. Understandable in a way, but not right, and it may get really nasty if you don't get some space between you. Good luck OP.