I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

@fatboyslimschin

You saying she isn’t abusive doesn’t negate her abusive behaviour. If she wasn’t abusive perhaps she would have reflected, realised this behaviour was wrong and taken steps to resolve it and fix her relationship with her son.

Instead she laughed, said she’s never felt bad about it and he should feel lucky they haven’t lamped him. Colour it any way you want, that’s abusive.

And no excuses like ‘not knowing how to manage’ justifies violence in my opinion. You either believe it’s wrong or you think it’s okay.

seems like op has gone? and is drinking now according to her last emoji? certian posters maybe scared her away, is that what you were hoping to achieve? there is some good advice on here from people with experience and knowledge and sympathy. shame.

Wow. I cannot believe some of the shit on this thread.

OP has been pushed to the brink by a lazy, ingrate young adult and she is called abusive.
Fucking nuts.
I'm assuming that all the screeching horde have suffered at the hands of very difficult young adult children and have just cuddled them and offered them a camomile tea??
Wtaf.
Walk even half a mile in the OPs shoes and then start again on your self-righteous bullshit.

OP, instead of getting overly defensive with some of the PP's comments, I'd focus on your son now. Try and talk to him, this is a very unhealthy situation you're all in and things urgently need to change. There is no point in blaming him or him blaming you for that matter. Things can't continue as they are now.

@SmallPrawnEnergy

I’m sad for this kid, I really am. Only a few weeks before he can jump ship and never see them again. But he isn’t jumping ship is he? He’s been a lazy fucker and sacked off every job because he’d rather play video games and take the utter piss at home. Let’s not pretend this grown adult is an innocent little boy, he’s a lazy shit who has fumbled his way into university. He will be shown the door by the start of term 2 if he keeps up this ridiculous charade of not waking up, not completing work and sacking off all responsibilities.

He is going to Uni though? He found STEM A Levels too difficult, which around half do and drop out.

He then went back to college to do another subject, during which time OP will have been claiming benefits for him, so no need for him to work.

She seems most concerned with keeping him at home so she can get more free money via DS by taking half of his student loan, which is why she’s horrified that his friend has informed him he can claim estrangement due to abuse.

There's that word again, lazy!!

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

I am really surprised so many posters seem to think op has been abusive. Maybe there are a lot of teens replying to this thread?! I think it's more like trying to instil some discipline, routines and backbone in a lazy manchild. For his own future good. If my (adult at 18) child refused to get up/brush teeth/shower/ do chores/ hold down a job, we would be throwing water on them too! Call the police!

I am sorry, OP. He might need to live in the real world for a bit and see what you have actually done for him. Then, maybe some family therapy might work. Communication is really important but some teens can't until they mature.

@SaharaFlower - look up codependency. It’s been an eye opener for me and has explained so much for me. My mother will NEVER apologise because she cannot even see what she did or acknowledge it. That’s her cross to bear though and I’ve accepted I won’t ever get an apology. You may never too but you need to live your life for you and be happy. You can do it. It’s damn hard but so worth it xx

@Alonelonelylonersbadidea

Wow. I cannot believe some of the shit on this thread.

OP has been pushed to the brink by a lazy, ingrate young adult and she is called abusive.
Fucking nuts.
I'm assuming that all the screeching horde have suffered at the hands of very difficult young adult children and have just cuddled them and offered them a camomile tea??
Wtaf.
Walk even half a mile in the OPs shoes and then start again on your self-righteous bullshit.

Yup and then when the pampered, excused child starts "kicking off" and smashing things up in rage they call the police to do the parenting for them. Repeated across households in the country every day.

@Amore2 as the mum of teenage and adult DC I can I categorically say you most certainly can't enforce things like that on anyone over 18! They're adults. You just have to do a good enough job up to that point so it isn't an issue in the first place! But even if they don't get up for college, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. To use force is assault.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

She has repeatedly assaulted her adult son

I don’t think even DS would agree with that @thedancingbear.

Yet his friend is under the impression you hit him and you've openly admitted there's been 'tussles'

@icedcoffees

Of course violence is wrong, but trivial stuff like dribbling water on someone's head because they refuse to get up is not... it's pretty normal IMO

It certainly isn't normal to pour water over someone's head because they don't want to get out of bed. Neither is it normal to forcibly yank headphones off people's heads or shove them about.

well when her son is waking up ops husband by shouting and swearing at his game and it sounds like refusing to stop playing and the ops husband drives a hgv for a living , i guess if the husband winds up ploughing into a vehicle and killing the occupants because hes fallen asleep at the wheel this would be ok with you ? god forbid she trys to take the headphones off him eh

Probably better if you let him keep his maintenance loan and he can find his own place. Good luck OP.

Your son sounds very like my brother as this age. Very low self esteem and undiagnosed depression. The best thing he did was move out to a flat share with friends. He had to learn the hard way in terms of 'adulting' but the distance also allowed him to step away from my mum who behaved in many of the same ways you are, despite her being a MH nurse of many years.

God I could have written this myself- my eldest cruised through school, couldnt be arsed, got a shock when he only got Cs in his a levels and couldnt get to the uni he wanted. He decided to do them again, we helped him sign up to a college then he lied to the admissions coordinator...he ended up repeating the year when I was at home on maternity leave and he was learning on his own. We were at loggerheads as he sat around doing zilch...did the same as yours, we are abusers, dont understand him, he suddenly decided that his dad who he had chosen to call dad from a young age (step dad) was an abuser and told his GF and her mother that. That was a kick in the stomach for my DH who had supported him from a young age. He was lazy, didnt study ever, so i paid for extra tuition for his GCSES, he should have gots As and got a handful of Bs and Cs. Couldnt stay at his private school...went to local good state, he didnt like them and they him, he cruised through AS but didnt appreciate that a levels was tough.. He ended up doing 6 weeks work and pulling out a stars and got into his chosen uni. I dont think Uni was the right step as he was totally disinterested in work. But off he went....we funded him as we were high earners, he got 100 a week from us...he still ended up asking me for money, felt hard done by as others were getting money handed to them, turns out he was hardly attending uni, signed up to a house share in the second year...however found out he hadnt passed the first year as he hadnt resit the correct module. He expected us to pay his rent and sit there doing nothing...it was tough love I am afraid...when we set boundaries I got nothing apart from abuse...he felt entitled to cash from us, he wouldnt keep down any job at all and then when we set boundaries he went no contact...was the best thing as he struggled and had to sort himself out. He still didnt get his degree...wasted 5yrs of his life resitting a levels, mucking around with a degree and then came home telling us he had one thing to do to get his degree. He used his dads illness (step dads) to his advantage, was nasty and hostile at times when we were already struggling, got a job but 'didnt'like the boss. Handed his notice in just before lockdown (if he hadnt he would have got furlough pay) so sat in our home in a mood with no money. He finally sorted out a job, moved out and is finally sorted. But it took until he was 25...i did have to help him pay off 4 different debts or he would never have been able to move out. Got a loan, paid everything off and he pays me every month. However to stress it did take until he was 25 to finally mature so most get their in the end...I didnt chuck water over him etc as his issue wasnt getting to school. he would go to school, just didnt work /revise and focussed his energy on rugby. Wouldnt have minded but his mates were in he u16/u18 england squad and playing in county clubs, he wasnt as he had many injuries despite being good. if it wasnt for that I would have happily supported him through his passion...funnily enough he plays rugby now and is in various squads as an adult and that has helped focus his mind too...Good Luck as i totally understand...

well when her son is waking up ops husband by shouting and swearing at his game and it sounds like refusing to stop playing and the ops husband drives a hgv for a living , i guess if the husband winds up ploughing into a vehicle and killing the occupants because hes fallen asleep at the wheel this would be ok with you ? god forbid she trys to take the headphones off him eh

I'm not saying his behaviour is acceptable, but there are ways to deal with it without resorting to violence. I wish people would stop saying "well, he's being rude/badly behaved so it's okay for us to get physical with him!"

Personally I would be disconnecting the router when I go to bed and locking it in my bedroom.

If he can't be trusted to keep quiet online, you take away his internet access. You don't start assaulting him and grabbing his stuff off his body while he's wearing it

He got the grades to do his A levels and to get into uni during a pandemic so If he can get into halls and live there he should.

This is why a lot of students go, so that they can become independent and learn to fend for themselves.

I think you've said earlier accommodation would cost £10k but his maintenance loan is only £9k. So he still has to find an extra £1k just for accommodation in London. Let alone living expenses, studio fees and materials which will be substantial.

To take £1k back from his maintenance loan at this point in time and would probably result in him not being able to go to uni at all, which would not help the situation. These loans are not generous. And he will be paying them back for a long time, with interest, which the government have increased since it was introduced, so it will cost him more than the £1k you receive and involve a long repayment period if you to take this sum back from him as he starts university.

Throwing him out of the house today because you looked at a private conversation on his phone, not something he himself had written but how a friend saw the situation and you didn't like how this portrayed his home life is quite an abrupt reaction even if his behaviour has been frustrating.
Couldn't you give both of you a bit of time and space to cool down and discuss it when tempers are less frayed?

However, if has been made homeless he might be able to apply for grants to help him attend university.

OP don't give up on him. I've been where you are with my DD. It's an absolute nightmare. We had to keep bailing her out throughout uni, paying rent when she'd wasted her grant on computer games and pizzas. Chased her about doing work, pushed her to passing courses by the skin of her teeth. But it does get better. Mine is now 28, working full time, supporting herself and keeping a roof over her head. At the time she hated me for always being on her case, now she's extremely grateful.

@SudokuZebra

The op clearly has serious issues with her son.

By her own admission , he must have passed his GCSE's , or he wouldn't have been admitted to do STEM A Levels, ( I don't know a single college/ sixth form that doesn't have relatively robust entrance criteria for the STEM pathway). Yet the OP couldn't congratulate him on his GCSE's , but told him he should have done better...

Then after finding out STEM A levels weren't for him, he found and did an alternative, practical course. So many kids change their mind about what they want to do at 16 or 17. Despite the fact the OP's partner earns 40k a year, they said he was only allowed to continue in education if he got a part time job to fund basic course materials.

Then he passed the BTEC and is offered a university place, ( despite living in adverse home conditions and being the victim of domestic violence...)and instead of saying "well done, let's get excited for your university course" the op will tell anyone who'll listen that he's not suited to university. No wonder his friends think you are abusive. Because. You.are.

Yes, look around the OP's anger and her son has obviously done well in spite of his mother.

He’s lucky we’ve never lamped him!

Horrible.

I hope he leaves home because whatever the truth of the matter, it is a toxic environment for him. He's lucky to have a good pal looking out for him.

Cant believe im reading "OP you are not abusive" and 'I threw water over him and tussled and his mates hear us shouting at him to shut up" in the same thread.

His maintenance loan is for him. Not for you. If you've paid for stuff in the past then that's your bad. But this isn't for you to recover some kind of debts for normal parenting. Its his money to do as he pleases with.

This is all so bizarre and removed from real life. Calling the OP abusive and violent just minimises the terms. I think she has just been very honest whereas most people posting are bullshitters. A lot will happen in homes which don’t cover parents in glory, as if you can raise people to adulthood without ever making mistakes. Son sounds like a dickhead, hopefully he’ll grow out of it and will look back and be thoroughly ashamed of himself. Letting him go on the way he is would be negligent and he’ll end up being some poor unsuspecting woman’s problem, if he gets lucky. I actually admire the way you’ve signed off in the face of a tsunami of self righteous pearl clutching OP - he is lucky you haven’t lamped him.

The whole situation sounds awful and whilst he does sound like a lazy toad, you don't come off much better. You sound controlling and nasty. 'How else to get an adult out of bed without violence' gross...
Also the money you've spent on him that he 'owes you', he's your son- they're expensive. He needs to go to uni and get away.

Big difference between lazy and "un motivated"

This sounds awful. I feel really sorry for your son though going through this and for things he's been through, like a difficult time at school. Does he have SEND? The university will have a learning support team and if might be a good idea for them to support him or for him to be aware of them, it sounds like he found school challenging and never developed the right tools to help him. Good luck, this is such a sad situation. Hopefully distance and "real life" will help him to be happier. And you'll feel prouder of him - what an achievement going to uni!!