I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

Kanaloa

I am not going into a bun fight with you, I am ignoring your goady posts and attempt to start an argument.

It's amusing to see your confrontational attitude on such a thread.

Op why don't you just stop paying for the phone if you are having constant battles over it ?

@alltheemptyfields

The only abusive people on here are the ones who pretend it's acceptable to refuse to parent your child, acceptable to let get them away with rudeness, waking up the household, getting money to play games and do nothing.

It is abusive, it's ruining your kids life and their chance in life. People should be ashamed of themselves, because only someone who doesn't care at all would treat their child like that.

Give over. Hitting someone isn't parenting.

I think you would benefit from building a closer relationship with the truth, as you seem to be somewhat estranged.

54321nought

I have sons this age.

I do feel quite upset for your son, just going by your own description of how you have treated him - no one deserves that

And please don't take his money, that is for his living expenses, which you are supposed to be topping up, not taking away from him

He is living at home! So I’m supposed to top up his loan which is supposed to be for living expenses, and pay them as well!

WTF! Are people on here really that stupid and unable to read?

Admit my wrong doing?

I’ll be totally honest. I don’t feel bad AT ALL for pouring a bit of water on my adult son’s head to get him out of bed to get to college after several attempts at getting him up when I already had a younger child and another teen with ASD and severe learning difficulties to get out of the house too!

If I hadn’t he wouldn’t have got into University now would he? Something that was apparently his dream. If he’d been kicked out of college, all that would happen would be him at home living off us and sleeping day, up all night playing games in his pants!

Nor do I feel bad about the ‘tussles’ which would never had happened if he hadn’t behaved like he does. He’s lucky we’ve never lamped him!

Flame away. I’m out. This thread is just bear baiting .

A wet flannel around the face is often the advice bandied around on here for a teen that won't get out of bed. And for those advocating to leave said teen in bed; not great when you are subsequently fined by the local authority for non school attendance.

Posters are also regularly advised on here to confiscate phones and tech for bad behaviour which the OP has tried to do hence the "tussles".

OP has tried to impose discipline and good behaviour on this boy. She may have not succeeded but she is not "abusive". I think some of you need to step outside your MC bubbles and realise what "abusive" parenting really is.

I'm sure the OP has lost her shit and has made parenting mistakes over the years. Haven't we all?

I would say write off the debt, let him go to university, and find his own digs and he can support himself. He's a big boy now. He can take his friend's advice.

Enough is enough.

If you poured water over a stranger, yanked their headphones off their head/ears and pulled them about, it would be assault.

Why is it any different because she's his parent?

If you refused to allow a stranger to leave your house ('grounding' them) it would be false imprisonment. If you insisted they carry out chores, that would be forced labour. The relationship between a parent and the kids under their care is different. Of course violence is wrong, but trivial stuff like dribbling water on someone's head because they refuse to get up is not... it's pretty normal IMO.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

It sounds horrendous but you have done abusive things: telling him he shouldn't do A levels because he's too lazy,

Arffffff at @CallMeNutribullet!

Hilarious isn't it? I'm still dealing with the aftermath of a parent who never had a positive word to say to me at 40.

@goldfinchfan

OMG OP poured water over a lazy 19year old man.

Who could move out if he wants. Therefore not really abuse is it?
It was move by OP to get the lazy bugger up.

Yes it would be better not to except she didn't want DS to throw away his chance to make something better in life for himself.
A mistep at his age is hard to make up.

I think a talk with some kind of mediation? or counselling at the intended Uni might help.
DS must take responsibility HE is NOT a child.
the current generation of teens is so soft.
My generation had issues with parents who were proper abusive and so we left home and made our own lives
It was hard but no one lay in bed expecting mum and dad to do everything for them.
So I cannot see the DS side at all.

OP's husband poured water over her because she was being lazy.

OP could move out if she wants but chooses to stay. So it's not really abuse is it?

OP's husband wanted to turn the TV off because OP was being a lazy bugger and not helping with the housework. They ended up having a tussle. OP could move out if she wants so that means it's not abuse.

@bumblingbovine49

Why didn't you have a simple rule to have all gadgets with you at 10pm. There was no need for the violence, tempers and anger.

has made me . Ops son sounds exactly like DS but DS is 17 not 19 and doing much worse in school

I tried this and it resulted in DS outright refusing to give up his phone . Then when we cut of the wifi and broadband from 11pm -6.30 am instead , as soon as he noticed he came to our bedroom and began kicking doors and punching walls. He kicked our bedroom door until it broke and we were forced to come downstairs. He cried, screamed, cut himself with a knife, punched a hole in the kitchen dividing wall.and broke several several pieces of furniture and ornaments . At no point did I lose my temper until he tried to open the door and run into the road at which point I did grab him to stop him doing that as in the past he has run heedlessly into the road and I didn't want to be chasing him around the estate in the early hours. So there was a tussle in the end.

Eventually,around 2 hours later he accepted I wasn't switching the WiFi back until the set time of 6.30am and surprisingly we managed to finish with him wanting a hug before I went to bed- no idea how that happened except that by a superhuman effort I stayed pretty calm through the whole teenage ' tantrum'

I really didn't want to go through that again though so when he eventually he decided to just download stuff in the day and use that at night instead , I gave up trying to get him off screens. It seemed more trouble than it was worth by then.

He is pretty much exactly like the op's son. He does have a diagnosis of ADHD and ASD though

Nowhere has OP said her that her son has done a single thing like smashing up the house/self harm/etc.

OP, thank you for explaining more fully in a subsequent post. Please don’t throw him out. Try to take a step back and detach a little - hard to do, I know. I would also advise against trying to get the £1000 back - I think this will just cause more pain and angst for you all. I think you just have to take a deep breath and go gently. Trust that all you did for him in the early years will pay off and he’ll mature and become more responsible when he gets to uni. Surely you couldn’t bear to be estranged from him? If you can all pause a little and think about what really matters - his and your family’s future welfare - you may be able to move past this. I appreciate that he’s enormously frustrating, but he’s your child.

@GetTaeFuck your posting is becoming really aggressive and personal, I've reported a couple to MN. Maybe is time to step away from the thread for a breather

I work in a behavioural unit and what you are describing sounds like classic ADHD to me.

I think he needs to leave and stay in student accommodation; I think it will do you both good to get some distance and parity over this before it damages your relationship for good.

I dont think your in the wrong at all OP!

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

With regarding pouring water over him, can anyone suggest other ways in which to get an adult out of bed without violence?

I guess I should have just left him there, so I got done by the truancy officer and he got kicked out of college then?

The tussles were mutual shoving I suppose trying to get the phone off him or get him off the PC with him pushing back.

No one else lost patience when a teen doesn’t come down for dinner, answer you calling them, or listen to anything you say as ‘I’ve got headphones on’ as if that’s something that’s out of their control?

Ok to shout and swear at 3am waking everyone up then refusing to take headphones off and get off game?

In UK, education is not compulsory for adults, or children above 16.

So when your adult son refused to attend college, no truancy officer would have taken any interest at all.

If my kids didn't come to eat their dinner when it was ready, then someone else (brothers, dogs, chickens) would have eaten it.

If they shouted at games in the night, then the game/headphones would have been immediately, forcibly removed .

If they broke their bike or left it where it got stolen, the consequences was not having a bike.

@alltheemptyfields

Sure, sure. I’m not goady or argumentative at all, just find it odd that you’re so desperate to defend abusive behaviour. I presume you’re either also abusive or have been abused possibly so it’s personal for you. All I was saying is that - for me - violence and aggression in the home is absolutely unacceptable. It would not be allowed by me at any time. Violence is never the appropriate solution to a parenting issue in my opinion.

So sorry you've had to deal with this. Ignore the arseholes on here giving you grief for daring to pull headphones off your ignorant son or pour water over him to get his lazy, self entitled arse out of bed. Sometimes I wonder what planet these people are on. You know what you have to do. Kick him out and cut him off financially. It's sink or swim time. Good luck!!

@alltheemptyfields

The only abusive people on here are the ones who pretend it's acceptable to refuse to parent your child, acceptable to let get them away with rudeness, waking up the household, getting money to play games and do nothing.

It is abusive, it's ruining your kids life and their chance in life. People should be ashamed of themselves, because only someone who doesn't care at all would treat their child like that.

this !

‘He’s lucky we never lamped him.’

Wow, how horrible.

It sounds like a stressful house and I suspect that the time that you have had to give his disabled brother has impacted all of you. Is he depressed? He also sounds very demotivated, which is understandable given his age, covid and not knowing what he wants to do with his life. A lot of this he will grow out of. However, I think that pouring water on him, shouting and tussles are not good and borderline abusive. I don't think that kicking him out in anger is the solution, especially as an overreactive knee jerk reaction. When, you calm down you will probably let him back which would be even worse and inconsistent. And I think that taking half of his money at this stage is a bit harsh. You would also be punishing him for having a private conversation with a friend whom he has turned to for support. How would he feel if he discovered that you had posted this online to thousands of strangers? Do you not think that he would be extremely hurt by this. Because arguably it's worse than what he has just done. I think that you could all do with counseling/learn how to communicate better and how to build up his confidence/motivate him.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

54321nought

I have sons this age.

I do feel quite upset for your son, just going by your own description of how you have treated him - no one deserves that

And please don't take his money, that is for his living expenses, which you are supposed to be topping up, not taking away from him

He is living at home! So I’m supposed to top up his loan which is supposed to be for living expenses, and pay them as well!

WTF! Are people on here really that stupid and unable to read?

Admit my wrong doing?

I’ll be totally honest. I don’t feel bad AT ALL for pouring a bit of water on my adult son’s head to get him out of bed to get to college after several attempts at getting him up when I already had a younger child and another teen with ASD and severe learning difficulties to get out of the house too!

If I hadn’t he wouldn’t have got into University now would he? Something that was apparently his dream. If he’d been kicked out of college, all that would happen would be him at home living off us and sleeping day, up all night playing games in his pants!

Nor do I feel bad about the ‘tussles’ which would never had happened if he hadn’t behaved like he does. He’s lucky we’ve never lamped him!

Flame away. I’m out. This thread is just bear baiting .

I'm sorry but not feeling bad at all? Lucky you never lamped him?

Can't believe you accept no wrongdoing at all for anything. Ask him to move out by all means. He'd probably flourish without you. Disgusting.

I mean, would anyone on this thread say that about their kids? He’s lucky we’ve never lamped him? Jesus.

@Kanaloa

I mean, would anyone on this thread say that about their kids? He’s lucky we’ve never lamped him? Jesus.

But I’m aggressive and personal