I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

Yes @SaharaFlower. Unfortunately I don’t think op is interested in reflecting on how she might have driven this relationship to where it is. No behaviour would drive me to assaulting my kids - and that includes dealing with an autistic child who’s behaviours can be extremely challenging

and more ridiculous comparisons between a parent and a husband

Husband telling you to go to bed
husband telling you to do your work
husband giving you pocket money
husband removing your device after 7pm
husband insisting on knowing where you are and imposing a curfew,

all of those would be abusive. So any parent guilty of the above is abusive?

@alltheemptyfields

You still haven’t answered whether you think this is appropriate? Whether you treat your own children like this? Push and shove them, pour water over them in bed?

@NotTerfNorCis

She has repeatedly assaulted her adult son.

She really hasn't.

Not unless you redefine assault into meaninglessness.

You might want to go and look at the definition of common assault. It has a perfectly meaningful definition, whether you agree with it or not.

You don't even need to lay hands on someone to commit a criminal assault.

We have had some of the problems you have only we're a couple of years behind you.

The way I try to look at it is that they don't choose a life of wasting away in bed, disappointing everyone and not achieving anything. It's a shit existence.

When did all this start? It's a shame really that there wasn't any mental health intervention earlier because whilst CAMHs is pretty shit, it is still better than the help he'll get as an adult plus he would have been easier for you to reach.

He's clearly a very unhappy young man and I don't think I'd be kicking him out. As much as I can understand your frustration.

He hasn't exactly lied to his friend has he? He's shared his perception of his life.

I think you need to make a list of all the shitty behaviour and then pick one or two hills to die on, so to speak.

Shouting and screaming late in to the night and affecting your DH's ability to work safety would be an obvious one.

The sleeping in, not coming down to dinner etc. Aren't really worth fighting over right now in my opinion.

The only abusive people on here are the ones who pretend it's acceptable to refuse to parent your child, acceptable to let get them away with rudeness, waking up the household, getting money to play games and do nothing.

It is abusive, it's ruining your kids life and their chance in life. People should be ashamed of themselves, because only someone who doesn't care at all would treat their child like that.

With regarding pouring water over him, can anyone suggest other ways in which to get an adult out of bed without violence?

The key word there is ADULT. if you did that to any other adult you'd be in trouble. Why is it ok when it's your son? Your behaviour towards him is appalling. I hope for his sake he can get away from you.

Re the contact lenses, I doubt they are suitable for your son, because they are dangerous if left in too long. If your son has broken glasses by sleeping in them, chances are he might also forget to remove contact lenses, which could result in serious damage to his eyes.

OMG
OP poured water over a lazy 19year old man.

Who could move out if he wants. Therefore not really abuse is it?
It was move by OP to get the lazy bugger up.

Yes it would be better not to except she didn't want DS to throw away his chance to make something better in life for himself.
A mistep at his age is hard to make up.

I think a talk with some kind of mediation? or counselling at the intended Uni might help.
DS must take responsibility HE is NOT a child.
the current generation of teens is so soft.
My generation had issues with parents who were proper abusive and so we left home and made our own lives
It was hard but no one lay in bed expecting mum and dad to do everything for them.
So I cannot see the DS side at all.

@alltheemptyfields

and more ridiculous comparisons between a parent and a husband

Husband telling you to go to bed
husband telling you to do your work
husband giving you pocket money
husband removing your device after 7pm
husband insisting on knowing where you are and imposing a curfew,

all of those would be abusive. So any parent guilty of the above is abusive?

Interesting that in your "comparison" you have missed out the physical violence. How strange.

OP - I’m trying not to join the pike on/bun fight.
Here’s a thing - my parents weren’t well off, had 6 children. My older (the oldest) brother worked evenings and weekends in a store to n my she money and gave most of it to my parents m.
He had hard chores to do around the house.
They pushed him to be very academic.
When he went to Uni he discovered beer, women etc and ultimately failed his degree.
There are 4 girls in between the next don.
He was mollycoddled- allowed to eat junk food, never even washed a cup in his life, stayed at home while going to uni, didn’t have to pay rent, let fo wtf he liked.
The older boy was subjected to violent outbursts by both parents (including being hit with a steel capped toe boot across the face).
The girls weren’t physically abused by the parents (GF for me a different story) but after boy 2 grew up and started being so entitled he pushed his weight around m, hurt my sister, physically assaulted my mum, they also retaliated - threats of violence, pushing, shoving, arguing about him playing games all night etc.
He is now addicted to hard drugs, living abroad in squats, very little contact with mum though he’s tried to repair it….etc
Now, I don’t want to add to your stress but - it’s not possible to fix a situation by forcing it.
If you want your son in your life you need to, I’d suggest, stop making excuses for yourself - either talk to him like an adult and treat him as one or face losing him

@alltheemptyfields

I see you’ve reduced your argument to total nonsense now. It isn’t abusive not to assault your kids, which I would have thought was obvious. There are plenty of ways to parent that are non violent and non abusive, I’m sorry you’re so scornful of that.

[quote SaharaFlower]@fatboyslimschin : With age is meant to come maturity. When my son is difficult, I don't fight him.[/quote]
And I never fight mine. I have three girls ranging from 25 - 5 and I've been incredibly lucky that they havnt got me to that point.

But I've known families where prolonged highly stressful relationships with older kids can turn in to one.

If OP son phone SS and told them that at 19 his mum chucked water over him to get him to go work or tried to wrestle his phone off him - they would advise him to move out. I really doubt the police would be interested either!

@alltheemptyfields : Why do you try really hard to defend the indefensible?

@alltheemptyfields nobody is saying it's acceptable. A lot of people are saying it's unacceptable to throw water or have tussles with anyone whether it's a parent, child or random stranger.

Yes OP is at the end of her tether but that doesn't make it okay. It wouldn't be okay for me to throw water or have a tussle with anyone because I'm at the end of my tether so why is it okay for OP

Who could move out if he wants. Therefore not really abuse is it?**

Must pass this wonderful advice onto domestic violence charities and refuges - how can anyone be abused if they can just move out?

I feel your pain! My daughter was very similar to
Your son. Are you sure there isn't more going on though? She was diagnosed with ADHD last year though & the meds have helped her so much. The doctor says prob ASD too but not diagnosed. My son, her younger brother has Autism too more severely. It could just be teenagers more people on here will tell you if that's normal or not as I wouldn't know but my friends kids were not how my daughter was at all.

@wewereliars

Youn should not be taking any of his maintance loan off him. Not on at all.

Why not ? He's spunked all his money up the wall so he can't afford to move out and OP is stuck with him at home behaving like Lord Muck.

If he was living in halls or residences he'd be shelling out much more than his mother is asking for.

The OP bought contact lenses for DS and you are blaming her for this?

Because it is not safe for DS.

He is a man.

Not 7 yeas old ffs!

@alltheemptyfields

and more ridiculous comparisons between a parent and a husband

Husband telling you to go to bed
husband telling you to do your work
husband giving you pocket money
husband removing your device after 7pm
husband insisting on knowing where you are and imposing a curfew,

all of those would be abusive. So any parent guilty of the above is abusive?

right, i will tackle this sensibly.

When our children are children, we set boundaries, to set them up for life, to teach them right from wrong.

As they get older, those boundaries have to be moved as they become mature enough to make their own choices.. and with Teens, you have to explain why you think a certain thing should be, and work with them so it works for both of you, and set rules/consequences for not following them through.. kind of like society does in laws having punishments for breaking them.
At no point, is it ok for any consequences for not following the rules, to physically abuse them.

An adult, is old enough to make those decisions, come what may, for themselves... be it losing a job, failing a course, ending up homeless.

If you need that explaining to you, then you need to readjust your thinking.

Why didn't you have a simple rule to have all gadgets with you at 10pm. There was no need for the violence, tempers and anger.

has made me . Ops son sounds exactly like DS but DS is 17 not 19 and doing much worse in school

I tried this and it resulted in DS outright refusing to give up his phone . Then when we cut of the wifi and broadband from 11pm -6.30 am instead , as soon as he noticed he came to our bedroom and began kicking doors and punching walls. He kicked our bedroom door until it broke and we were forced to come downstairs. He cried, screamed, cut himself with a knife, punched a hole in the kitchen dividing wall.and broke several several pieces of furniture and ornaments . At no point did I lose my temper until he tried to open the door and run into the road at which point I did grab him to stop him doing that as in the past he has run heedlessly into the road and I didn't want to be chasing him around the estate in the early hours. So there was a tussle in the end.

Eventually,around 2 hours later he accepted I wasn't switching the WiFi back until the set time of 6.30am and surprisingly we managed to finish with him wanting a hug before I went to bed- no idea how that happened except that by a superhuman effort I stayed pretty calm through the whole teenage ' tantrum'

I really didn't want to go through that again though so when he eventually he decided to just download stuff in the day and use that at night instead , I gave up trying to get him off screens. It seemed more trouble than it was worth by then.

He is pretty much exactly like the op's son. He does have a diagnosis of ADHD and ASD though

I also want to highlight op that parents are obligated to continue to financially support their children going into further education. That's why he had to give details of you and his father's income which decided how much maintenance grant he was entitled to.

I'm sure you've not taken in the vast majority of posters who have pointed out your behaviour has been poor here.

None of these things have happened just when the DS was 19, it’s been going since GCSES by the sound of it.