I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

The situation seems like what my dad would say to justify abuse. My 14 year old son, he can be really lazy, yet I don't abuse and disrespect him.

I have sons this age.

I do feel quite upset for your son, just going by your own description of how you have treated him - no one deserves that

And please don't take his money, that is for his living expenses, which you are supposed to be topping up, not taking away from him

@GetTaeFuck

Why do people think it’s okay for a parent to do this to a child but would be crying LTB if a woman posted this about a partner? Why does pushing a human out of our vaginas mean we can treat them however we want? Oh wait, it doesn’t.

Because maybe some of us have seen perfectly good families hit a massive speed bump but then manage to get back on track. I have a family member who had several physical fights with her dd when she was around 18.

Do I think its ok? No I don't but it was an extremely tough time for them all.

It is best to just accept the wrongdoing.

@SaharaFlower

I feel just the same, can’t believe so many are justifying what op has done because of what her son has done. There’s no behavioural point at which abusive behaviour becomes justified.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles.

That is seriously messed up.

"I strongly suspect those that have, have their itsby bitsy gcutesy little children ready for bed and have yet to negotiate those teenage years."

I wish, oh how i wish.

i've a non sleeping, non eating, screen addicted disabled teenager here with asd/adhd who makes the op's DS sound like a dream compared to what i have to handle.

Funnily enough, i've never had to resort to assaulting him to get him to work with me though.

Why would you want to have a house role, off devices at 10 with a 19year old!!

'my husband pours water over me to wake me up, pulls my headphones off me, and we frequently get into physical tussles. He says that my behaviour drives him to it': Abuser, red flags, it'll escalate, ltb

'I pour water over my adult son, pull off his headphones, and we frequently get into physical tussles. But he's rude and lazy and he drives me to it!' : you poor thing OP, you must be at the end of your tether etc etc.

Mumsnet at its very worst, and more evidence that DV against men simply doesn't count.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed rather than getting in bun fights and defending yourself against posters calling you abusive and shit, etc. Why don't you focus on the replies that are offering advice and ways forward for you and DS? I agree that neither of you have behaved well but you need to focus on what can be done going forward to repair your relationship and get DS on the right path. I don't condone the tussling, shouting or water throwing but DS hasn't been great either. You need to put it all behind you both and find a way to move forward. Help DS with Uni. Encourage him to stay in halls and get a PT job and grow up, be independent, etc. Then you won't have to deal with his shitty behaviour and putting some space between you might improve your relationship. The responsibility of independent living will be good for him.

I think there’s been wrong on both sides.
He obviously feels that you are abusive so much so that he is confiding in friends and uni support etc.
But unless you’ve had a difficult teen it is very hard to judge.

I would completely ignore the message and don’t say that you’ve seen.
Is there any way he can live in halls?
I think he needs to take a bit more responsibility for his actions and him living away from home may allow him to grow up a bit more.

@fatboyslimschin : With age is meant to come maturity. When my son is difficult, I don't fight him.

@tava63

My sense is you are unkind towards him. There is little evidence of you having any positive regard for him, your expectations of him are low and the times he has surpassed them you still put him down. So much of your post is about you insisting on him paying you money back rather than sharing with him how you can both cooperate with each other better to help him meet his aspirations within the context of your financial situation. Nearly everyone I know with young adults tells me their sleeping patterns are all over the place and whilst his seem slightly worse he may also be motivated to avoid being around you and his Dad. Given the context of throwing water over him, arguments about money and your low expectations of him and with only a few weeks before he leaves home I think hearing your DM say she is washing your hands of you is abusive. I hope for both of you that you can think about your own contribution to this situation, rein in your anger and find a way to repair your relationship - even if he does go stay with his friend.

this is such absolute bollocks . at 19 i had a job and my sleeping patterns were fine , my dad ran his own business and if id been waking him up in the early hours of the morning if have not only had him to deal with ,but my mum as well . as she said when you leave home you can do what you want ,but as long as you are here there are rules id never have got away with pulling this shit the ops son is because id have been out on my ear . i was taught to be respectful . the bottom line is if you cant live in your parents house and follow basic rules and have good manners than its hardly abusive if your asked to leave .

She has repeatedly assaulted her adult son.

She really hasn't.

Not unless you redefine assault into meaninglessness.

This is horrible. You are being abusive. Flip it- if a husband came in here saying how his wife wouldn't get out of bed so he poured water in her, people would cry LTB.
I think he should leave. For his own sake. Because where he is is not a good environment fir him, maybe he will thrive elsewhere.

I can’t believe how many people here are calling you abusive. No advice but I’m with you OP.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

Well he might, now someone’s opened his eyes to what a pair of shits you areX

Oh gosh @GetTaeFuck. Please explain, in detail, how his Dad and I are a pair of shits so I can offer a rebuttal. Ta x

OP I notice you engage solely with your detractors. It's like you want to fight.

Maybe think about that, how you engage generally, whether you respond only to negatives of whether you can see and acknowledge positives.

Because it speaks to your relationship with your son. Do you think you praise and encourage him as often as you criticise him? Genuine question.

Sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees.

Do you want to fight? Do you on some level feel attracted to drama? Or do you want to find a way of getting on with your son? Did you feel loved and supported by your parents?

@NotTerfNorCis

She has repeatedly assaulted her adult son.

She really hasn't.

Not unless you redefine assault into meaninglessness.

If you poured water over a stranger, yanked their headphones off their head/ears and pulled them about, it would be assault.

Why is it any different because she's his parent?

@Kanaloa : The poster won't accept responsibility for her wrongdoing, to the extent of arguing with those who disagree with that behaviour.

He sounds like he might have mental health issues. The way you talk about him is really deeply unpleasant, he's your child whether you feel he's meeting your standards or behaviour or not.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles.

This is abuse. Frankly if he's offloading to his friend about this of course the friend is going to say something supportive. Young people might exaggerate but it doesn't sound like what he's said I baseless from your post.

I did read your op properly, thanks. You described in detail how you have abused your son.

We're reacting to "your side of the story" and still think you're abusive. No twisting required.

Just because you don't want to take responsibility for your actions, doesn't make it ok. There are plenty of abusive parents who use this site who'll pat you on the back, so if that's the path you want to go down, it's your bed.

@Panickingpavlova

Fat boy I agree but there its not building self esteem and confidence. Something is going on with thus young man and I'd want to get to the bottom of it.

But your not in this home experiencing it. This isn't a new situation, this has been going on a long time, since he was in school.

You are looking at this with fresh eyes, maybe OP is just absolutely empty of trying to fix it. This is why they need space.

Don’t need to OP, you’ve already written why you are, you’re just so upset at the fact that your DS has dared to tell someone exactly what you’ve been doing, and that they have rightly called it abuse.

What’s really going on, is that you wanted this to be an echo chamber post, so you could him how normal it is to assault your child.

But that hasn’t happened.

As I’ve stated, SF and Uni will accept those incidents as more than enough reason for him to be estranged and give him more money, a place to live and extra support. So hopefully he will heed his friends advice.

@NotTerfNorCis

She has repeatedly assaulted her adult son.

She really hasn't.

Not unless you redefine assault into meaninglessness.

Pouring water over a sleeping person is assault.

Unless you take the view that men don't count as human beings, which I suspect is the case with you.

@GetTaeFuck : It is worrying how many people agree with the poster.