I want to kick DS out TODAY? Totally devastated by what he’s been saying about us.

[FeelingUtterlyBetrayed]

Sorry this is really long but I feel so betrayed and devastated and furious!

This lunchtime as I was sitting on the sofa I noticed a phone on the other arm of it, assumed it was DH’s as he’s off today but noticed the screen was open on what looked like a long message rather than being black and locked. I thought was odd so picked it up out of curiosity.

It was actually DS’s (19) phone, they both have Samsung phones. His phone obviously had been set not to time out.

He had been in a convo with his best friend about moving out, as he’s going to University in September, which apparently he’s desperate to do as we are very abusive to him and exploiting him for money (this was his friend saying this!).

His friend was advising him that he should contact the Uni to ask what help there is for students estranged from abusive parents and said ‘they even hit you man, that’s a crime, you could call the police on them’.

We also never support him and make him feel like shit about himself apparently.

We had have major issues with DS for many years due to extreme laziness and screen addiction. He is also very arrogant and argumentative, knows everything and is always right and other the last few years has become very aggressive and shouty when asked to do anything/called out on his behaviour, even with his younger brother.

We used to get constant calls from school about him not doing homework (even about falling asleep in class) and during his GCSE’s about him not completing coursework. He did much worse than expected but managed to get enough to do his A levels which he wanted to do. I actually tried to dissuade him from doing them as I knew it would be a nightmare to keep him focused after the stress of his GCSE’s but he insisted he wanted to do them and promised he would work hard.

We found out mid way through the course that he was flunking them and his tutor didn’t think it worth him continuing as he was constantly on his phone in class and not doing the work. So a whole year wasted.

Then he decided he wanted to do a BTEC about something he was passionate about so we supported him in that but again I constantly had to get him up in the morning, he was slow to finish his work and wasn’t handing stuff in on time. I had calls just before he was due to finish with concerns he was forecast for a Pass when he needed a Merit to get into Uni and that he hadn’t bothered to attend his English GCSE resit as he’d overslept! Lots of stress at home about this and constantly being on his back about doing the work. Still there were many times he didn’t even bother to go in and I’m amazed he got the Merit!

He also lost his part time job, which was a condition of him doing his BTEC for us as there was extra course fees and materials needed and I told him he had to pay them himself as it was his choice to do the course and be at college for an extra year. He lost that job within 6 months as he couldn’t get up to go to it and wasted all the cash on online gaming anyway!

When I say couldn’t get up, this was an evening job so he started at around 6pm! As he’d be up all night gaming, he’d stumble into college and then go to bed as soon as he got home in the afternoon! On weekends he’d stay up all night and sleep all day. I’d have to go to get up him and drive him there but gave up in the end as he was just taking the piss!

He hasn’t been able to get another job since last March despite me telling him from last year that if he wanted to go to Uni, he needed to get a part time job to save for the accommodation as we have no spare cash to subsidise him (and I didn’t want to with his track record).

There have been lots of arguments and we’ve lost our tempers and struggled with him to try to confiscate his phone (which we still pay for) or get his headphones off his head as he’s woken us up during the night shouting and swearing while gaming. Many times he has woken DH up at 3/4am and DH has a job where he can’t go into work tired!

Since he finished college, he literally sleeps all day and stays up all night. I have offered to pay for gym membership for him (have paid in the past but he ended up not going), given him cash to go out with his mates, tried to get him up and encourage him to do something but he will often sneak back to bed. I’ve looked up jobs for him to apply for for the summer, driven him to interviews, had to drag him out of bed to get ready. He’s even missed interviews by being asleep.

We’ve taken the WiFi but he just plays downloaded games.

I admit DH and I have both lost our shit and poured water over him to get him up and we have had tussles. His mates have also heard us shouting at him to shut up while he’s been online gaming with them as he’s so loud and also to get off the game for dinner or to do a chore he’s been asked to do. He often leaves his dinner on the side for hours after we’ve cooked for him and the other night we got him down to eat it but he left it on the table untouched and went back to bed! We come down in the morning to dirty glasses and plates left lying about. He rarely showers or brushes his teeth. He does nothing around the house.

We are at our wits end but had no choice but to support him to go to Uni as what else is he going to do? He can’t even get a part time job in a cafe!

As he can’t afford the accommodation, he will be living at home and commuting so we have said we want half of his first maintenance loan as we have been continuously paying out for him since he lost his part time job.

I recently paid over £200 for contact lenses which he can’t be bothered to put in, despite saying he wanted them. He has also lost two bikes over the last year by not bothering to chain them up. One was his Dad’s and he had to buy a new one, so we’ve said he can pay us back for that. He also got into an accident due to not looking where he was going and we had to pay for the damage to the car so he owes us for that. I gave him £100 a few weeks ago to buy clothes. So including all the £20 here and there, it’s probably over £1000 he’s had off us which I want back from his first maintenance loan and I think is reasonable. He’ll get around £2800.

He will only have train fare to Uni to pay so will have plenty for going out but apparently we are ‘exploiting’ him for money!

We are not well off as I have had to be a SAHM due to his brother being disabled so we have really struggled financially but always made sure he had everything he needed but apparently he’s embarrassed at us as we are ‘poor’ and all his mates parents are paying for their Uni accommodation and paid for their cars etc!

We have tried so hard to support him while coping with his brother and 2 other DC whilst he has been making himself out to be a victim to his mates and behaving disgracefully at home.

I have told him to pack his stuff and ask his mate if he can crash with him and I wash my hands of him. He’s in bed asleep right now!

I just cannot believe he actually thinks we are abusive to him . I can’t stop crying.

It sounds horrendous but you have done abusive things: telling him he shouldn't do A levels because he's too lazy, pouring water over him, going through his messages, getting physical with him.
If you're honest op, how long have you spoken to him negatively about himself? His behaviour started somewhere.
Agree he should probably leave but don't be surprised that his take on it all is that you are abusive parents

• lazy middy coddled young man "

Or a depressed Young man who feels like shit and whose own parents seem to hate him and don't care about him.

Oh I read your OP, multiple times.

And no, this isn’t AIBU, but it isn’t a fucking echo chamber either, where everyone will say oh poor you, what a horrible kid.

You’re pissed off and upset because you know you’ve been abusive and don’t want to admit it.

He doesn’t have to be grateful to you for shit, our children don’t owe us a damn thing for choosing to have them.

Also, STEM A Levels are fucking hard work and even with top GCSE grades, a lot that choose those subjects, struggle.

What is his degree. Can he do it in another cheaper area rather than London

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

He is actually getting the maximum student loan with extra for studying in London.

I get carers allowance and DH works 60 hours a week for just over £40k!

What are you going to do?

Are you going to tell him he has to move out are are you going to carry on going round in circles?

@NotTerfNorCis

The OP hasn't been abusive. The OP was trying desperately to cope with what sounds like a very selfish and lazy young man.

My advice would be to take a step back. Help him to move out and be self-sufficient. Try to keep on friendly terms. Nineteen is still young and immature. Once he's responsible for himself he should eventually improve.

Yes she has.

She has repeatedly assaulted her adult son.

That is abusive.

Abuse is never okay, no matter the ages and sexes of the parties.

It sounds horrendous but you have done abusive things: telling him he shouldn't do A levels because he's too lazy,

Arffffff at @CallMeNutribullet!

op what do you think you're going to do differently now?

I think your (and his dad's) relationship with your son and his with you has deteriorated to the point where it needs drastic action. So, yes, I think he needs to leave. It's unfortunate, but you are all so deep in a behavioural 'rut' that none of you will be able to get out without professional help (counseling/therapy for all) and it's highly unlikely your DS will be willing to cooperate with that.

Packing his bags and shouting "I saw what you texted, get out" isn't the way to do it. It needs to be a calm and decisive "Dad and I will no longer tolerate your behaviour and disrespect. And it has become apparent that you are equally unhappy with our treatment of you. Because of this and because of past incidents involving all of us, we have decided that it is best for all if you live elsewhere. Perhaps later things might change, but for now this is what is going to happen".

Has he been assessed for ASD or ADHD as some of his actions sound similar to my DS, although much more extreme.? He also sounds immature, which is another common trait.

I know the frustration can be awful but some of the things you've done are inexcusable - the situation should not have been allowed to escalate to pouring water on him, tussling etc. as you are the adults here.

She has repeatedly assaulted her adult son

I don’t think even DS would agree with that @thedancingbear.

Sometimes I think mumsnet should start a board called ‘I’m not unreasonable.’ Then people could post when they are unwilling to admit they could possibly ever be wrong.

Why do people think it’s okay for a parent to do this to a child but would be crying LTB if a woman posted this about a partner? Why does pushing a human out of our vaginas mean we can treat them however we want? Oh wait, it doesn’t.

@Panickingpavlova

* lazy middy coddled young man "

Or a depressed Young man who feels like shit and whose own parents seem to hate him and don't care about him.

I'd say paying a grown adults phone bill is caring about him. I'd say continuously trying to wake him up for work then driving him there Is caring about him. Giving him money when he is not working and aged 19 is caring about him

The OP is just at the end of her rag and all sensibilities have gone out the window. He needs to move out so the family can reset. If he is depressed then she can help him, she can't help him whilst they are not getting on.

She has repeatedly assaulted her adult son

Where has she said this?

@Innocenta

People are being goady, OP, try to ignore them. There are always those who want to troll and twist a situation.

i agree , cant believe the hand wringing responses to an op whos clearly and understandably at her wits end with her sons behavior . all this talk of abuse it just unreal , but then i guess its easy for them to tap away on their keyboards when they arent the ones having to deal with it

Fat boy I agree but there its not building self esteem and confidence.
Something is going on with thus young man and I'd want to get to the bottom of it.

I’m not going to pile on OP, and I strongly suspect those that have, have their itsby bitsy gcutesy little children ready for bed and have yet to negotiate those teenage years.

The reality is, he has no idea of reality! And he needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

I am trying to think back to my (difficult until err about 25 and still challenging) DS, that got there in the end.

My advice would be to sit down with him. Tell him Clearly and succinctly what the situation is with finances and how you will always love him but you can’t give him what you don’t have. How you hope he will prove you wrong about university but if it doesn’t work then he will NEED to get a job and support himself and since he is over 18 he needs to use some of his maintenance loan to support himself by either living at home, or taking a rental near his uni.

And then disengage, rinse and repeat as necessary.

Stick to it.

It’s ok to be hurt but he needs clear boundaries and if his siblings perform where he has failed eventually he will hopefully grow up and realise it’s him, not you.

Keep up the good work, you are doing a Sterling job.

Grim all round.

Well he might, now someone’s opened his eyes to what a pair of shits you areX

Oh gosh @GetTaeFuck. Please explain, in detail, how his Dad and I are a pair of shits so I can offer a rebuttal. Ta x

If the OP was saying that her son was pouring water over her, pulling her earphones out, starting tussles etc then I bet the majority of people who are saying it isn't abusive would be calling it abusive if he was doing it to his Mum.

Just because it's the other way around doesn't make it okay.

Loving the poster that said ‘just have a house rule of devices with parents at 10pm’. How do you enforce that with this sort of teen? Who will outright refuse to give his device in. That is exactly when ‘tussles’ start.

I feel for you OP but I think you’ve got to move on from here and work out what your next step is. Definitely wait until you are calm. Make a list of what you want to say. Choose a good time, a time that is good for both of you. Practice what you will say. No need for accusations, stay totally calm. State that things aren’t working well, no one is happy and you need to make a change as you don’t want anyone to be unhappy. You’re really proud of his achievement and want him to succeed and to make sure the environment is the best it can be for success. Discuss the options - moving out v staying but need to comply with house rules. Come to a decision together - likely to be he moves out, hopefully on good terms. Keep calm. Do not bring up past misdemeanours or behaviours, just focus on what shall we do now to make him happy and successful.

I think you need to write off the money he ‘owes’ you and he can start a clean slate for the new academic year. It could make the difference to him.

@FeelingUtterlyBetrayed

He is actually getting the maximum student loan with extra for studying in London.

I get carers allowance and DH works 60 hours a week for just over £40k!

If he's getting the maximum loan plus extra, why can't he stay in halls? If he needs, he can get a PT job to subsidise himself. It would be a good idea for him to move, give you both same space and time for thinking. You can both reflect. He might even do well having to take responsibility of looking after himself and grow up a bit.

I think in some form you need to take a step back. I have a 20yo dd at home and I can't imagine confiscating stuff, etc, she's an adult. But I also don't often cook for her, etc. She's an adult... She can cook her own stuff. I certainly wouldn't cook for someone who leaves food, etc.

Maybe moving out into halls would be good. But yes depending on earnings you'd be expected to contribute. If you can't afford that he either stays at home and stops moaning or leaves uni, gets a job and moves out.

Don't bother about worrying if he's still in bed, etc. He has to take responsibility. I keep telling myself if dd had moved away for uni I wouldn't know what she was up to so I take no notice now.