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Original poster

Oh Prince Andrew is getting SUED by Virginia Robert's

999 replies

LaurieFairyCake · 09/08/2021 23:54

That will be interesting

OP posts:
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MotorwayDiva · 10/08/2021 06:35

Why isn't this being tried in the UK, its were the ledged crime took place and as far as I know UK doesn't have statue of limitations on childhood abuse/rape.
I feel for VR and this case makes me understand why meghan and Prince Harry went far far away.

KidneyBeans · 10/08/2021 06:36

@Pixxie7

I am always a bit sceptical about these things, whilst I don’t doubt that he was involved to some extent. We all know that some women would enjoy the highlife and all the benefits that come with it.whether or not it was actual rape remains to be proved.
Epstein's victims were as young as 14 and often from vulnerable backgrounds Do you seriously think they were 'women enjoying the high life' ? @Pixxie7 @sotiredofthislonelylife @Plumtree391

Are you really arguing that teenage girls cannot be raped by rich people who show them 'the high life'?

Which part of statutory rape legislation do you find confusing?

sashh · 10/08/2021 06:37

I also don't understand how the trafficking claim came about? Was VR not in a consenting sexual relationship with JE? I thought she was his girlfriend?

No she was not his girlfriend, no she wasn't in a consenting relationship.

The accusations or trafficking mainly come from his private jet being nicknamed 'the lolita express' and flying underage girls to a private island they could not get off.

Just google 'Epstein island' and take it from there. While you are at it look up Jean-Luc Brunel

www.nbcnews.com/news/world/modeling-agent-jean-luc-brunel-charged-rape-minor-jeffrey-epstein-n1251804

KidneyBeans · 10/08/2021 06:45

@SpidersAreShitheads

I'm not a Prince Andrew supporter and I think that his interview was absolutely awful.

But I am confused by the references to a 17 year old being a child. At 17 she's a young adult. Sex with a much older, powerful man is distinctly sleazy - no question - but she's not a child. You can't drink until you're 21 in the USA, but that doesn't mean you're a child. Plus one of the two rape incidences took place in London, where she was over the age of consent.

I think the allegations of rape and coercion are bad enough without exaggerating for effect.

It's because in many parts of the USA, sex with an under 18 is considered sex with a minor. Add to that the power imbalance, trafficking and Epstein's preference for teen girl's as young as 14 and it's part of a bigger picture of abuse

You also seem to have overlooked the issue of consent - that's pretty central to the act of rape - her location in London and being over the age of consent is irrelevant. If she was trafficked and coerced, it's not consent! That is rape regardless of her age

thecognoscenti · 10/08/2021 06:53

Agree with PP - her age (17 is a minor and below the age of consent in many US states) and the lack of consent are absolutely key here. FWIW I believe her and I hope she wins.

Pixxie7 · 10/08/2021 06:55

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SpidersAreShitheads · 10/08/2021 06:59

@KidneyBeans I'm absolutely not saying it wasn't rape. If she didn't consent, then of course it was rape. Her age doesn't matter - rape is rape. I didn't overlook it - as I said in my post, rape and coercion are bad enough and that's actually the bit we should be focusing on.

My point was that a 17 year old isn't a child. You can be under the age of consent in a country but not be an actual child. That's the point I was trying to make about alcohol. You can't drink until you're 21 in the USA - but that doesn't mean a 20 yr old is a child. In some parts of the USA you can vote at age 16 - if you consider a 17yr old a child, that would mean they are allowing children to vote. Clearly that's not the case.

As I said, having sex with a 17 yr old is sleazy and awful, but it's not sexual intercourse with a child. I don't really like the sensationalism or the creeping inaccuracies tbh. That's my issue. Rape is bad enough on its own. We don't need to imply that a 17 yr old is a child to make it sound bad. Rape is horrendous, and a 17 yr old will be a young and vulnerable adult - but it's not child rape.

I've not seen PA implicated in any of the other cases but in all honesty, I've not followed it really closely. I agree that Epstein/Ghislaine's history of younger girls is horrific and that absolutely qualifies as child trafficking and child rape.

ElliottSmithsfingers · 10/08/2021 07:05

I am dismayed at the women rushing in to minimise the rape of trafficked women, who also happened to be underage, and accuse the victims of greed (even if all VR gets out of this is money rather than justice, good luck to her). Internalised misogyny is a terrible thing.

KidneyBeans · 10/08/2021 07:10

@Pixxie7

KidneyBesns@ not at all but we aren’t talking about 14 year old or the others involved. She was 17 and is suing, if it was rape bring a rape charge also the photo of her leaving the party does not imply a young woman who has been raped.
Ok, so you're saying a 17 year old cannot be trafficked and raped as long as the man or group of men shows her 'the high life'. That being flown to an island you cannot escape from for sex with men that you don't want to sleep with at the age of 17 is ok because the men are wealthy, so the girls probably enjoyed it.

And that you can tell whether or not a woman has been raped by whether she stands with her rapist for a photograph in a foreign country from where she has been flown to provide sex

Gosh you do have a lot of faith in your own abilities.
And a lot of internalised misogyny and ignorance if you genuinely believe that victims of trafficking should behave a certain way in order to demonstrate their experiences of abuse.

sashh · 10/08/2021 07:11

if it was rape bring a rape charge also the photo of her leaving the party does not imply a young woman who has been raped.

FFS you don't get a brand on your forehead when you are raped.

As I said, having sex with a 17 yr old is sleazy and awful, but it's not sexual intercourse with a child.

In the UK a child is anyone under 18, ages to drink, drive, leave education are irrelevant.

One thing that is relevant is that a trafficked woman cannot consent, it is rape whether she is a child or 35.

KidneyBeans · 10/08/2021 07:12

[quote SpidersAreShitheads]@KidneyBeans I'm absolutely not saying it wasn't rape. If she didn't consent, then of course it was rape. Her age doesn't matter - rape is rape. I didn't overlook it - as I said in my post, rape and coercion are bad enough and that's actually the bit we should be focusing on.

My point was that a 17 year old isn't a child. You can be under the age of consent in a country but not be an actual child. That's the point I was trying to make about alcohol. You can't drink until you're 21 in the USA - but that doesn't mean a 20 yr old is a child. In some parts of the USA you can vote at age 16 - if you consider a 17yr old a child, that would mean they are allowing children to vote. Clearly that's not the case.

As I said, having sex with a 17 yr old is sleazy and awful, but it's not sexual intercourse with a child. I don't really like the sensationalism or the creeping inaccuracies tbh. That's my issue. Rape is bad enough on its own. We don't need to imply that a 17 yr old is a child to make it sound bad. Rape is horrendous, and a 17 yr old will be a young and vulnerable adult - but it's not child rape.

I've not seen PA implicated in any of the other cases but in all honesty, I've not followed it really closely. I agree that Epstein/Ghislaine's history of younger girls is horrific and that absolutely qualifies as child trafficking and child rape.[/quote]
Has anyone said he's had sexual intercourse with a child?

I must've missed that post. I don't think it's representative of the thread.

ComeonJulia · 10/08/2021 07:22

It really is no wonder that so many victims of sexual abuse, especially historic sex abuse, don’t bother trying for a conviction isn’t it.

This thread is so sad. Women will never be respected, believed or equal, will they?

User4248035893 · 10/08/2021 07:28

Surely the weirdest part in the story is that PA straight up denies being in the photo? The same one being used by press all over the world. If it really were a fake then shouldn’t he be suing every paper?! Otherwise anyone can Photoshop a face onto a body and call that journalism.

How can anyone believe PA if he blatantly lies about visual evidence on national TV.

This would also be a great time for Meghan to speak up considering her passion is empowerment for women and her greatest hate is the racist family that treated her badly???

Polkadots2021 · 10/08/2021 07:29

@THisbackwithavengeance

I really don't know much about the case.

But I am sceptical of this woman with a bunch of lawyers trying to get ££££. The main perpetrator of any crime is dead so surely this comes down to negative public opinion, a media witchhunt and spurious allegations?

I also don't understand how the trafficking claim came about? Was VR not in a consenting sexual relationship with JE? I thought she was his girlfriend? She was 17 which is above the age of consent which makes the whole thing unpalatable and sleazy but not illegal, surely? I also see the word 'rape' bandied around here which I also don't understand as having sex with a 17 year old doesn't automatically make someone a rapist which seems to have been somehow become a fact on MN.

If anyone can recommend or link any unbiased fact based news sources I would be grateful as opposed to "PA is a sweaty rapist nonce" I would be grateful as I would like to educate myself on this.

My personal opinion on this matter is the PA should be called to account in the US courts the same day that AS is extradited for causing death by dangerous driving. Not going to happen.

The man who raped her isn't dead. He's very much alive and being protected by the most powerful organisations in our country, perhaps in the world. Also, different countries have different ages of consent.

So much rhetoric about teaching our girls to stand up for themselves, speak out, be courageous, but when one does and it involves sex, there's a lot of women very ready to throw it back in their face.

Mandalay246 · 10/08/2021 07:31

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Polkadots2021 · 10/08/2021 07:31

@Pixxie7

KidneyBesns@ not at all but we aren’t talking about 14 year old or the others involved. She was 17 and is suing, if it was rape bring a rape charge also the photo of her leaving the party does not imply a young woman who has been raped.
Are you actually serious with this comment?
ProfessorSlocombe · 10/08/2021 07:42

Not really sure why someone who is innocent needs to "settle out of court" ?

thecognoscenti · 10/08/2021 07:48

@ComeonJulia

It really is no wonder that so many victims of sexual abuse, especially historic sex abuse, don’t bother trying for a conviction isn’t it.

This thread is so sad. Women will never be respected, believed or equal, will they?

Indeed. I'm actually disgusted by how many posters are saying oh, she was 17, he's rich, there's no problem here. It wouldn't matter if she was 47 or he had 50p to his name: a woman is saying a man had sex with her without her full consent. That is rape.
Pixxie7 · 10/08/2021 07:48

KidneyBeans@ I think you are being incredibly naive, you are making unproven accusations. Prince Andrew is being accused of sexual abuse, not trafficking. Of course their are a lot of women who use their sexuality to gain favours with rich men. Before you jump down my throat, I think Prince Andrew has lot to answer for but sexual abuse in any country is illegal, so go to the police report it.
In this case that bit seems to have been missed and she is going for money.
If you think the photos suggest someone who has just been sexually abused fine but I don’t.o

KittenKong · 10/08/2021 07:48

Is she suing others too? I assume there were other men, plus Maxwell, and also the estate of Epstein.

Terhou · 10/08/2021 07:50

If she was underage then it was 'actual rape'.

Was she underage at 17? I know some states at least in the US regard the age of consent as 16 or younger.

SpidersAreShitheads · 10/08/2021 07:51

@KidneyBeans No, to be fair, it's not everyone saying that - just a couple of comments referring to it as child rape. I read another thread about it on here a couple of months back and that was FULL of references to a 17 yr old being a child, so I think I just eye rolled and thought here we go again.

I'm not minimising or trivialising what happened at all - kind of the opposite. I'm saying it's bad enough without stretching the truth to imply a 17 yr old is a child.

Actually, just thinking about it some more - I think it's just that I'm a bit fed up of the sensationalisation and jumping to conclusions in the media in general. I'd like to read facts without the exaggeration or distortion to suit an agenda. I just mean in general, not this case. I've come away from most social media temporarily because I'm just a bit sick of the constant wave of bullshit.

ssd · 10/08/2021 07:54

Good luck to her. He is odious.

CheesusWept · 10/08/2021 07:55

Some of the comments on here are fucking awful.
Absolutely clueless.

ComeonJulia · 10/08/2021 07:56

@Mandalay246 of course not. But from the “evidence” ie the interviews from both parties, I know who I’m backing in this case. He has lied on numerous occasions throughout. She’s the more credible party in this.

Would you also argue no rich man has ever raped a woman? She just cried rape for money.