Am I a reckless parent?

[AnotherDay579]

My mum is appalled that DH and I are taking our 13 month old away on holiday to Spain- not because of Covid but because there will be a pool. She thinks it's reckless and that our dd is at risk of having an accident.

The villa we are staying in has a large garden and a pool to one side. She is crawling. Of course we, as her parents, are 100% invested in her safety. We would never ever leave her unattended. I know it only takes a second, but we just would be so careful. Our plan is to play on the grass with her, have picnics etc, and swim with her. She already has swimming lessons which she loves and we are keen to use the holiday to get her confident in the water. I don't believe we are complacent. We have already talked about making sure we keep her safe.

Do you think we are reckless parents to book this villa?

I fully agree on both your last two posts weatheringstorms I actually think the “but you always watch them” type parents are the most worrying in this type of situation because relying on human vigilance is always going to be a flawed plan and that’s why we need other factors to help reduce the risk

I think this could be a very hard work holiday for you! Baby crawls towards pool, parent picks up baby, says no. Baby crawls towards pool, parent picks up baby, says no... Repeat repeat repeat, insert crying...

@Orangeinmybluelightcup. I think you're right. It's not just a hazard, it's an incredibly attractive hazard so you have to assume the baby will make a beeline for it.

My DC loved water and stairs at that age. I once spent an entire holiday trying to stop my DC climbing up an open spiral staircase we hadn't been told about. Had to strap them in the buggy whenever I went to the loo. It wasn't great.

Also, it's interesting that the police/coroner hardly ever blame the parents when there's a fatality. It's almost always a tragic accident rather than neglect.

'But you can't plan for the time you drop a glass that smashes everywhere or someone hammers on the front door, startling you or when you burn yourself on the oven and run for the cold tap.'

No-one is breaking a glass and not immediately picking the crawling baby up! Same if someone bangs on the door, take the baby with you.

I imagine the oven is inside, behind a closeable door? Which is essentially the same as being the other side of a pool fence, no?

'You relax at home (or in your temporary home). It's natural. Your defences drop. You can't prevent this.'

I completely disagree. I don't think you do relax in an unknown home there are too many other hazards.

In your own home, it's different and I wouldn't have an unfenced pool at my own home. In a rental, I'm watching that baby the whole time.

In a rental, I'm watching that baby the whole time.

Other parents have thought they were doing that with tragic consequences. You're not clocking the moments you're distracted.

I think some people are in denial about exactly how dangerous water is. Would you have an unfenced fire in your garden with young children around? That's arguably safer and less likely to have fatal consequences.

For a baby to crawl from the living area/kitchen of a villa, out of a (closed) door, across a garden and into a pool requires many seconds of distraction.

The idea that the OP will look away for a split second and the baby will have drowned just isn't the case with this specific setup (different where the child is older/there are multiple adults/other children etc.).

It would have to be an extended period of lack of supervision or lack of supervision right near the pool. I trust myself not to do this. If you don't trust yourself, then the right thing to do is to stay away. I guess it's different for different people.

I would say if you are the type to get distracted for multiple seconds when supervising a young baby you should also look for a villa with stair gates/secured TV/furniture etc/check wiring and so on because in an unknown home a pool is far from the only hazard to an unsupervised baby.

Would I rent a villa with an unfenced fire? No, because what would be the point! But from a safety perspective, I would trust myself not to let my baby crawl into a fire just the same as I would trust myself not to let a baby play unsupervised by a pool.

I'd want to lie by a pool in the sun, not sit in the shade constantly vigilant.

Well how can you do this anyway with a 13mo? Unless you have a holiday at a resort with babysitting/kids' club.

For a baby to crawl from the living area/kitchen of a villa, out of a (closed) door, across a garden and into a pool requires many seconds of distraction.

That's exactly the kind of thought process that demonstrates the importance of a fence.
You're assuming you know exactly where to look if baby disappears, you're not allowing for a mistake like the wind blowing the door open/miscommunication between caregivers, and you're probably underestimating the speed of a baby on a mission.

I am not going to look away long enough for a baby to disappear.

The other stuff (miscommunication/door blowing open) needs to be prevented but it can be with proper procedures in place/a robust attitude to health and safety.

If the wind has blown open the door what's to say it hasn't blown open the gate to the pool? I'm less worried/alert because I know the pool is fenced (false sense of security). In goes baby.

We went to a villa with a pool with our walking 10 month old last summer. We all had an absolute blast. He adored the pool and we got a big inflatable boat.
To me, the pool was one of many dangers (the bbq, hard tiles, sharp fences, bees, foods as he has food allergies). I'd never let it put me off. You're constantly with and watching a baby at this age anyway.
You do realise that a huge number of people (UK and abroad) have pools in their garden?

@BrownEyedSquirrel thanks!

OP here. This thread is very split between those who think I'm not reckless and those who side with my mum on this.

I have had another look at the details for the property and I feel okay overall. The garden is actually 1 acre- bigger than I remember when it was booked. The pool is to one side and away from the house down a long path, probably around 20 metres.

In all holiday rentals there are going to be new risks, such as different doors, steps, floor surfaces, drawers etc. We actually live in a flat normally and have been cooped up all lockdown. We recently visited grandparents who live a way away, and stayed in an air Bnb, which had a big kitchen and a garden. It was actually really good as our dd has more space to crawl around than she does at home and hazards were actually less, once we had done sensible things like remove things from drawers etc.

We never take our eyes off her at home. Never even go to the loo without her, and this holiday will be no different. She couldn't crawl all the way to the pool - it would take her quite a while even at speed.

We would never be in a situation where she could slip out of the doors to outside unnoticed. We just always have her right next to us and we are always playing with her or engaging her in a book or similar. The only time we take our eyes off her is when she's in her cot asleep, and even then we use a monitor which we are taking with us.

So on balance I feel okay. That does not mean I'm going to relax and stop being vigilant. We have swimming lessons at home and we are looking forward to enjoying the pool safely. The float suit idea is a good one which we will do, in addition to being safe and vigilant of course.

Thanks for all the contributions.

I hope you do go and have a wonderful time; I'm very jealous!

@NuffSaidSam

I am not going to look away long enough for a baby to disappear.

The other stuff (miscommunication/door blowing open) needs to be prevented but it can be with proper procedures in place/a robust attitude to health and safety.

If the wind has blown open the door what's to say it hasn't blown open the gate to the pool? I'm less worried/alert because I know the pool is fenced (false sense of security). In goes baby.

The gates are locked with special childproof bolts and close automatically. They can't blow open.

@BrownEyedSquirrel

We went to a villa with a pool with our walking 10 month old last summer. We all had an absolute blast. He adored the pool and we got a big inflatable boat. To me, the pool was one of many dangers (the bbq, hard tiles, sharp fences, bees, foods as he has food allergies). I'd never let it put me off. You're constantly with and watching a baby at this age anyway. You do realise that a huge number of people (UK and abroad) have pools in their garden?

If the pools in their garden are unfenced then they present an enormous hazard to any DC that live there/visit. In many countries it's the law that they have to be fenced.

I really wouldn't do this.

I remember reading about silent drowning and seeing a simulation on youtube. People often assume you'd hear something which you wouldn't.

Its human nature to assume that "other people" who lost babies to drowning "werent watching" but really it is normal hypervigilant people. It happens enough that I wouldn't consider it.

Maybe younger people haven't heard the reports of this happening? Or aren't aware of just how dangerous it is/leading cause of death etc.

My children were running about at that age (no, they didn't turn into great athletes) and would have been absolutely capable of opening doors. One stacked packs of nappies high enough to attempt to force open a locked door with a nail file. Not surprisingly we turned down buying a wonderful house with a stream.

All pools are required to be fenced in my country because of horrible accidents where parents thought their child was asleep, with their dad etc. It takes such a short time to drown for a child - less than 30 seconds and they don't cry out. I wouldn't have a moment's peace of mind on that holiday but it's your choice.

One thing I would focus on is that it's not so important that a child can swim lengths as know how to get themselves out of trouble. Every term time when my youngest was learning to swim there was a drill. The children were deliberately bounced out of an inflatable with waves in the pool and had to make their way to safety. (This was the highlight of the term for them but taught them valuable lessons about hitting the water in an emergency.) I'm not sure though that this is valuable advice with a 13 month old. Maybe show them how to scramble out at least.

Are you really sure that you won't take your eyes off her for 30 seconds.? What if she goes out to the pool while you're sleeping - you are planning to sleep?

@Rangoon are you serious? You think a 13 month old will be able to climb out of a cot, open a shut door, crawl out to the patio doors, unlock those doors and get outside in the middle of the night?? I've heard it all now!

The fence wouldn't be much of a barrier to that super baby :o

You're very rude aren't you, OP. That was a very well meaning answer from ranger with a lot of helpful info and you....well the less said about you the better. Have a pleasant hyper vigilant holiday.

Er, not sure why you felt the need to post that @saffronfreezing 🤷‍♀️ Nothing rude about it. The pp said What if she goes out to the pool while you're sleeping - you are planning to sleep? Which is mildly facetious (you are planning to sleep?) and obviously ridiculous. As if she could escape her cot, bedroom, hallway, external locked doors at 13 months! 🤦‍♀️

Perhaps the wind will blow the baby out of her cot, out the window and straight into the pool? You have to think about these things op.

You're not staying near the sea are you? And if so, is it fenced? Because you can't rule out your baby booking an Uber and going down to the sea for a swim during nap time.