How do we help improve DS's work ethic??

[WorkEthicFail]

Name changed for this because it is so personal to DS. T-rex in the supermarket/ making a chicken last a month etc.

DS is nearly 11. He is lovely- funny, bright, popular at school and a general pleasure to be with, but... he's SO work avoidant.

He goes to a lovely prep school where the focus is totally on effort not results and on being a decent person. His latest school report basically says he is doing the bare minimum. We already knew this based on his attitude to homework and his thoughts about school. His results are still ok- average to above- but he could clearly do much better if he tried. He's got entrance tests for his next school coming up and he'll do whatever he can to avoid doing any practice for them.

He does a sport which he's doing really well in- been selected for a regional and national junior squad. However, this is largely because we turn up to the training with him and he's been very lucky to have superb coaching right from day 1 so he is technically good. He doesn't want to do any fitness work at home, doesn't think for himself about what he needs to work on, doesn't want to watch the sport being played at the Olympics.

DH and I both work hard- full time jobs at a senior level and we've both voluntarily taken on extra qualifications which he's seen us do the work for, so he does have hard-working role models.

We've removed his phone (which he had because he walks to school by himself), access to youtube and gaming because we thought they were just so appealing and instantly gratifying that he would always choose them over doing things he 'needs' to do. It hasn't really made any difference. He still tries every tactic in the book to avoid doing things he needs to do. He just doesn't seem to be willing to work at anything.

We've really failed somewhere.

[quote GreenLakes]@Clymene

The issue is that a 10 year old (or even a 15 year old) is very rarely going to have the foresight to want to study rather than play Xbox.

It is therefore our role as parents to step in and make sure they do if necessary.[/quote]
I agree to a point. You are right parents need to make sure work is completed, although I would argue it's not essential for a ten year old to be doing quite so much over the summer holiday.

I think the OP, and you perhaps (I'm not sure yet) are confusing 'getting the work done' with 'work ethic.' True work ethic means wanting to complete work off your own back...not just because there is a parent breathing down your neck.

@Flossing

I wouldn’t say work ethic means ‘wanting’ to get work done.

It means understanding that working hard is important and ensuring that work is the priority before other activities.

Yes @Flossing. You instil a work ethic through a mix of carrot and stick, through getting them to own their progress, through taking responsibility for their progress.

Not by forcing them to spend their dinner dodging over text books at the age of 10

@Clymene

Yes *@Flossing*. You instil a work ethic through a mix of carrot and stick, through getting them to own their progress, through taking responsibility for their progress.

Not by forcing them to spend their dinner dodging over text books at the age of 10

Dinner dodging = Days slaving

Bloody autocorrect

[quote GreenLakes]@Clymene

The issue is that a 10 year old (or even a 15 year old) is very rarely going to have the foresight to want to study rather than play Xbox.

It is therefore our role as parents to step in and make sure they do if necessary.[/quote]
Maybe your children only need you to step in because you have created the problem?

@Clymene

I don’t think anyone is expecting 10 year olds to spend ‘days slaving away’.

The OP is expecting 16 hours of work from her DS in the run up to important entrance exams.

Even if her DS does 2 or 3 hours of study each day, he has plenty more to do other things.

[quote GreenLakes]@Flossing

I wouldn’t say work ethic means ‘wanting’ to get work done.

It means understanding that working hard is important and ensuring that work is the priority before other activities.[/quote]
Yes, I can agree with that subtle difference, you are right.

However, they don't understand that it needs to take priority if they are doing it as you are forcing them. That's not having a strong work ethic. That's working to avoid hassle from your Mum.

@Iannistunut I feel we are on the same page with what work ethic truly means.

@GreenLakes good for you. I've raised 6 children and my youngest is 10. I haven't made their childhoods miserable by making it all about how hard they work at school. I've consistently praised how well they've done rather than bemoaning how well they could've done. That's how you instil confidence in their abilities.

The older ones have had no issue passing GCSEs, A-Levels, and gaining university degrees. They worked hard because they wanted to, and they enjoyed it far more because of that.

Sometimes you have to let them work things out themselves.

My DS narrowly failed to get into state grammar. Really competitive round here. Got the brains but not the drive. Homework was like pulling teeth weekly.

Fast forward a few years and the penny has dropped. We've let him make mistakes like leaving homework too late and getting poor marks. He's conscientious enough underneath the laziness and it gave him a kick up the bum.

He's in top sets at the local state school and has found out now he needs to prioritise, how to do so and we encourage checking homework etc but I refuse to helicopter him at 12/13. I'll support all the way but he needs to be responsible for his work.

It's hard to back off, but it makes them more mature & responsible in the longer term.

When would it be reasonable to start expecting a bit more of a self-starting attitude from him?
When he’s a grown up. And it is more important then anyway. My kids were lazy arseholes in their teens and are now the hardest workers ever. I think it helped that I did not push them and let them enjoy their childhoods.

If you're disappointed in your DS and think you've failed, and he is ten years old, when do you think you should have started on him? Five? Six?
If he's an intelligent lad, does he pick up on your disappointment in him, and your disdain for his attitude or for him just being an above-average normal boy & not a certified genius

People’s attitudes to hard work are really weird. I grew up in a different culture, but working after school was totally normal, plus extracurricular sport and activities. I think it played a big part in setting me up to work hard at exams all the way through. It gave me confidence that most of the time, if your practice something, you improve, even if you’re not good at it.

What is encouraging is parents sitting with you while you work and being interested. Eg - maybe look at that line again. Or doing quick tests or just asking what you are reading. The feeling of achievement when you didn’t know something; but after practice have improved, is pretty satisfying.

@user16395699

This is so fucking goady.

Guess what, op, just because your entire self-esteem is based on your perception of the value of being 'hard working', it doesn't mean that is a universal truth. It is perfectly possible to have different values to you and still be a decent human being.

If you or your husband became disabled (which could happen tomorrow), would you cease to have any worth as human beings because you were no longer able to 'work hard'? Why on earth is that a value you want to pass on to a ten year old child? That he is worthless unless he works himself to the point of burnout.

I work professionally with children who have been dealt really difficult hands and it is such an anathema to me to see him not being bothered to make the most of the opportunities he has. I don't seem to be able to get that through to him though.

In what way is it your ten year old child's responsibility to make you feel better about the shit time the children you (choose to) work with professionally are going through? Explain that to me.

Because that's what you're saying here. And it is completely messed up for a supposedly professional person.

He is making the most of the opportunities he has if he is living a happy, healthy life. It is not his responsibility to compensate for the shitty time other children have by pursuing burn out at the age of 10.

Deal with your own demons yourself instead of judging, pressuring and denigrating your child. You are the one who needs to learn to appreciate what she has.

Curious as to what makes you say that disabled people can't work hard?

Curious as to what makes you say that disabled people can't work hard?
Don't think that is the meaning, think the meaning is 'if you used to work hard and a disability stopped that, would that make you of lower worth as a person?'

I agree with completing some homework before screen time. Not hours, just 20 minutes a day as he’s only 10. Once he gets to secondary he might feel more inspired and interested in what he’s learning. Also do the same with the sport, 10 minutes a day to earn screens.

Research shows mixed benefit of primary school homework. Also important to consider that covid has greatly impacted how children learn in schools, hopefully this should improve this coming academic year. Lots of children have struggled with lockdown while it sounds like your DS has been quite resilient.

If he’s not finding school work that interesting one way to improve his knowledge/English is to buy/borrow books and magazines which really interest him and have him read for 40 minutes before bed each night.

It’s really easy for parents to over pressurise their children so getting the balance is key. Good to support your child to be resilient, happy, healthy, have good healthy relationships, have a mixture of interests, have the chance to develop passions, have a balanced approach to learning, be able to reflect and learn from experiences in life.

Many of your comments resonate with me. My eldest son is very conscientious and works hard at school and at sport. My youngest is naturally bright and good at sport. He's played three sports at county and is currently playing two at regional level but he coasts through life as it comes easily to him.

He's 14 now and it's the point at which sport becomes more serious for those kids looking to get onto academy style programs (not football). At cricket, his club and county teammates spend hours in the nets working on their batting and bowling outside of the group sessions. My son doesn't and my husband finds it frustrating that he's got some natural ability but doesn't have the motivation to put in the extra effort to practise. Not least because my husband spends every Sunday taking him to county matches all over the south of England. I have accepted that, if he doesn't have the inner drive, that's fine and we should just stick to enjoying school and club sport. My husband played sport at a high level and finds it harder to make that decision.

I totally understand OP. Not quite the same situation but I have a child who could be good at a sport but is happy to coast. She is barely doing that to be honest. She was asked to be in a more advanced squad but refused. Such an opportunity but she didn’t take it. My other child says she wants to be good at the same sport but despite being told by me and her coach what to do to achieve this has not put in any effort. Both are naturally talented runners who refuse to try athletics club. It is so, so frustrating. Athletics fine, they can pick up later. But the other sport really needs to be started in childhood. I see so many dedicated 6,7 and 8 year olds but my two do not want to put the effort in. Lockdown didn’t help as they were supposed to practise etc but getting them to practise, do their schoolwork or help around the house was awful.

I am surprised with people saying he is only 10. 10 would not be considered young in childhood sport. It is old and if they are serious they need to be working hard at it. There will be plenty of 10 year olds who are practising every possible minute and have been for years.

Sadly you cannot make them do it. I saw so many people give up sport, not trying at school etc then regret it as adults.

@kin432

Tbh I think there is a slight difference between sport and academics wrt work ethic expectations.

All of my DC are expected to do some form of sport/physical activity- and they are expected to work hard at them. However, I don’t expect them to aim to be Olympic competitors if they don’t want to.

Academics on the other hand are non-negotiable. All DC are expected to study hard and achieve the absolute best results that they are personally capable of.

@Greenlakes - how do you ensure that happens? As teenagers get older their peers & their mental health dictate.

Children are out of practice re: public exams too. I have seen ‘pushy parents’ succeed where an early virtuous circle is created and expectations higher from teachers which all factor in.

@SeafrontBingo

I ensure it happens as all DC know that they are not allowed screen time until the amount of study expected has been completed.

But more fundamentally, I sit down with all DCs regularly to discuss and set short and long term targets for their academics and results.

I absolutely agree that peer group is vitally important at that age- that is why we (and so many others) were very keen that our DC got into a grammar.

All of the DCs’ friends (and the vast majority of their year groups) are very hardworking and ambitious- this creates a studious environment (as well as an element of competition, which is no bad thing).

Honestly you don't sound like you like him very much. I'm sure you do, but I wonder if he feels that you do, because you sound so focused on improving what you perceive as his moral failing.

He's ten. He has the good fortune of a supportive and well resourced school, hobbies, parents who can prioritise supporting him, and the academic and physical skills to be able to do well enough at all this without having to work too hard. Honestly, this sounds really really nice and a wonderful life to be able to give your DC.

I coasted until my A levels, because I could (tbf I was facing lower expectations than your DC because my background isn't one where either my family or my school expected stellar academic performances, much less national-level sporting performance - so my handful of A*s at GCSEs plus unexceptional swimming and piano lessons (now v valuable for de-stressing and enriching my life!) seemed great). Fell hard because maths A level turned out to be something I needed to apply myself at and I had no idea how. You know what, it was OK. I learned from that, got two excellent degrees, have built a successful career alongside caring for my DC. People would describe me as having a good work ethic, but I did not develop this til I was 18. And even now tbh there are things I do because I like high standards and I'm intellectually curious, and then there is also a lot that I do because I am the sole breadwinner and if I want my children to have nice things I need to keep progressing, which simply isn't the case at 10 and nor should it be, and it's not something that 10 year olds should be trained for either. YMMV but for me the experiences that have created a good work ethic and the acceptance that life isn't all fun and games are not experiences I would wish on a 10 year old.

@GreenLakes at our school there is an increasing focus on well being (good) but that is oft quoted to not do any work in holidays etc. At 15 plus I find your sort of noble goals are met scornfully or, worse, with tears and concern.

Even at the Grammar certain ‘groups’ do the bare minimum.

I think if you put too much pressure on, or your children feel the weight of your expectations, it can spectacularly backfire at 16 plus. Striking the ‘right’ balance is very hard and sometimes I think you have to accept they are who they are, being continually at war, exhausting.

I am struck by how few read for pleasure, actual, physical books. Schools where that is ‘enforced’ have children who do better and are more intellectually curious. At our Primary, a ‘library’ was barely used by Y5/6. Once they could read it felt like ‘job done’.

@SeafrontBingo

We are actually very rarely (if ever) ‘at war’ in my house. The DC all know what is expected and get on with it, before asking permission for their screen time.

I think it does help that all of them are quite ambitious. They also have like-minded friends- many of whom have parents with similar or stricter expectations.

Yes, I agree. Things can change when they get older i have found, particularly if confidence is lost. The Pandemic poss making all harder. The ‘at war’ may be coming as per OP, whose son sounds like one of mine. Things usually work out in end.