How do we help improve DS's work ethic??

[WorkEthicFail]

Name changed for this because it is so personal to DS. T-rex in the supermarket/ making a chicken last a month etc.

DS is nearly 11. He is lovely- funny, bright, popular at school and a general pleasure to be with, but... he's SO work avoidant.

He goes to a lovely prep school where the focus is totally on effort not results and on being a decent person. His latest school report basically says he is doing the bare minimum. We already knew this based on his attitude to homework and his thoughts about school. His results are still ok- average to above- but he could clearly do much better if he tried. He's got entrance tests for his next school coming up and he'll do whatever he can to avoid doing any practice for them.

He does a sport which he's doing really well in- been selected for a regional and national junior squad. However, this is largely because we turn up to the training with him and he's been very lucky to have superb coaching right from day 1 so he is technically good. He doesn't want to do any fitness work at home, doesn't think for himself about what he needs to work on, doesn't want to watch the sport being played at the Olympics.

DH and I both work hard- full time jobs at a senior level and we've both voluntarily taken on extra qualifications which he's seen us do the work for, so he does have hard-working role models.

We've removed his phone (which he had because he walks to school by himself), access to youtube and gaming because we thought they were just so appealing and instantly gratifying that he would always choose them over doing things he 'needs' to do. It hasn't really made any difference. He still tries every tactic in the book to avoid doing things he needs to do. He just doesn't seem to be willing to work at anything.

We've really failed somewhere.

also doing tests isn't great - can you try work with your son and play some games that involve learning, can you look up youtube videos and think outside the box?

How inspiring is the prep school? Think what they do to keep children engaged, or if you are too busy - hire a tutor. But a good tutor won't want children doing hours and hours of work during the holidays, there should be no need for that at his age.. and if there is then you have to wonder what the secondary will be like and whether he will truly cope.

Good luck anyhow.

I think you need to carefully think about what you mean by work ethic. Do you mean getting the work done? Or having the motivation to want to learn and push yourself?

True work ethic surely is the latter. I really don't think your approach encourages that.

You've withdrawn something he's trying to earn back (stick) rather than considering a reward for going the extra mile (carrot).

You are essentially punishing him. You are also making work something negative. I don't think that's your intention, you want the best for him, but that's what you are doing

@WorkEthicFail

It's the 4th week of his 10 weeks of holiday.

He could do 16hrs of work in 8 days and still have 10-12 hours a day to do f* all.

You're expecting him to do two hours of work a day? At 10?

That's the amount I did for my GCSE's!

@WorkEthicFail

It's the 4th week of his 10 weeks of holiday.

He could do 16hrs of work in 8 days and still have 10-12 hours a day to do f* all.

I don't know what to suggest because you and I live on different planets!

I was 'encouraged' as a child and hated it. I also quickly learnt the best way to annoy people was to not do what they thought I should do.

I read a few books a fair while ago, when the kids were a lot younger. I remember one was about if you push 'success' on children you just make them terrified of failure and stop them doing things for the intrinsic satisfaction and another was about not being responsible for what your child chooses but rather for offering them a variety of good options. I had already wanted to parent differently to how I was parented and these books gave me lots of ideas that were useful, and the confidence to try.

I think you need a proper think about what you are trying to achieve. Intrinsic motivation is essential and you are actively preventing that from developing.

I am not going to claim my approach is what resulted in my kids doing well (some have finished school now), because they are responsible for their achievements not me, but I think the approach I took definitely helped us have a lot of fun whilst also learning a lot.

Also being selected for a regional and national junior squad is HUGE and although you may take him to training, HE must reach the level.

If I had a child at regional and national squad level who went to school and then did extra training, I would expect home to be a place to recharge.

If my child was getting average to above average results without needing to do much work at home, then what he did do at home I would try make fun and interesting.

TBH, I do mean learning to just get the work done. Sometimes that just needs doing and it isn't always interesting or fun.

" A parent should know that some of the fears they have about the child failing, has.nothing to do with the child. "
My advice would be leave him be, your being unrealistic, of course he won't think like you do at this age. Let him be a normal 11 year old.

lannistunut I totally agree with your post.

OP there are so many good posts on this thread.

Maybe I think instrinsic motivation may come a bit later, but to be fair if he is already at that level in sport, he will probably get into a secondary easily, as those private schools love sporting excellence.

I really hope you celebrate your child for reaching that level, or actually just having a go at sport, that is what I would be doing.

Good luck OP!

But he will have to do some work to get a bit of a luxury he wants, because as far as I can see, that's how life works.

This is completely depressing, if this is actually real I think you are in danger of crushing him. You are telling him life is shit.

@WorkEthicFail

TBH, I do mean learning to just get the work done. Sometimes that just needs doing and it isn't always interesting or fun.

That's not true work ethic then. From what you've said he's doing well by doing nothing. You want him to be exceptional by not coasting and pushing himself. (I'm assuming from what you've said).

It's fine it's not always fun and interesting. But if he's got an intrinsic motivation he will do it regardless. I really think you need to do some reading around intrinsic motivation. What you are doing now isn't going to foster work ethic, more likely resentment.

But OP that work that needs to be done should not take 2 hours a day. It really should not.

I say that as a parent who had a child go through state and private entrance exams last year.

I do know that you need to do some work for these 11 plus tests but not that much work.

I personally would think a few 10 minute tests would be fine during week days for now, then a few mock exams here and there.

Or if you are worried and aiming for one of those super hard to get into schools then have a look at a group course - so at least he can be surrounded with some peers, for support!

Not quite sure what your prep school has done, as I thought you pay that money so they prep for the next school?

Crikey some very harsh responses here, and some very black and white thinking. It's not either a childhood or a work ethic!

@madmomma

Crikey some very harsh responses here, and some very black and white thinking. It's not either a childhood or a work ethic!

The risk is it may be neither a childhood nor a work ethic

I think a 10-minute brain buster after breakfast each day would be sufficient for most of the holidays.

Then he needs to watch DVDs, mooch about in the garden, set the table, have friends over, go swimming, kick a ball about in the park, fold some washing, do some interesting jigsaws, bake some cakes, take the bins out, face time his grandparents, get stuck into wordsearches, go for a haircut he wouldn’t usually have… you know, stuff ordinary 10 year olds do… and a lot of this should be done with parents, siblings, friends.

@brokenzip I haven't told him how much he should do. He could do 10 minutes a day, or absolutely nothing and that's fine. I've just set him a target and I'm going to leave him to it.

I already said that he's very likely to pass his entrance test even if he does absolutely nothing. I'm not worried about that. It's his general attitude to life and being able to knuckle down to anything that isn't entirely hedonistic that gives me concern.

Thanks for the different perspectives to everyone, even the harsh ones are welcome.

Then he needs to watch DVDs, mooch about in the garden, set the table, have friends over, go swimming, kick a ball about in the park, fold some washing, do some interesting jigsaws, bake some cakes, take the bins out, face time his grandparents, get stuck into wordsearches, go for a haircut he wouldn’t usually have… you know, stuff ordinary 10 year olds do… and a lot of this should be done with parents, siblings, friends.

This is a pretty accurate description of his life if you add in tonnes of beach time and his sport- which he does actually enjoy and value (but doesn't want any extra).

My worry is that when it comes to doing something that isn't under the umbrella of mooching/ pottering/ outright hedonism, he's not so signed up. But maybe it is too soon to worry about that.

Different country, different culture, but also bright, coasting almost 12 year old son, also quite privileged in my opinion. I am very worried about him and agree with OP about importance of work ethics. Our educational system is different, and if he doesn't achieve excellent (not just above average) results in the next 4 years, his choices in life will become very limited at young age of 15. It's not a good system obviously, but he has to manage it.
I wish there was more advice on how to improve work ethics in children, not just to let them be.
Good luck OP! I certainly don't think you expect too much from your son, but unfortunately have no magic recipe how to achieve it

Having your DS earn his gaming time sounds like a great idea OP!

My DC have to earn all their screen time by completing an age-appropriate amount of study each evening and weekend.

For example, DS1 has just finished year 10- last year he had to do 2 hours’ study a night and 4 hours over the weekend. In year 11, this will be 2.5 hours a night and 8 hours over the weekend

In my house, poor effort and work ethic= no privileges.

It's his general attitude to life and being able to knuckle down to anything that isn't entirely hedonistic that gives me concern.

He's 10 years old. A little boy. There's plenty of time when he's older to learn that life isn't all fun and games.

I wish there was more advice on how to improve work ethics in children, not just to let them be.

You could try to emulate what schools do at home. I'm not saying make home like school though. I mean go to town on celebrating any effort. Effort not outcomes should be celebrated, that's really important. Your child likely makes effort with something.

Schools obviously do reward charts, postcards, stickers, stamps etc. Often verbal, specific praise is enough.

@KurtWilde

The problem is that 10 years old is not too soon to be working hard if the aim is to get into a grammar or selective independent school.

All of my DC are at grammars and all of their friends worked extremely hard in preparation for the 11+. That work ethic is now ingrained in them and they are all ambitious and very hardworking.

@GreenLakes

Having your DS earn his gaming time sounds like a great idea OP!

My DC have to earn all their screen time by completing an age-appropriate amount of study each evening and weekend.

For example, DS1 has just finished year 10- last year he had to do 2 hours’ study a night and 4 hours over the weekend. In year 11, this will be 2.5 hours a night and 8 hours over the weekend

In my house, poor effort and work ethic= no privileges.

Your child is in year ten. The OPs child is actually ten.

I think you are probably worrying about something that effects most boys of that age - I have two slightly older , one very academic and one very good at sport . Both could excel if they just put a bit more work in . I can nag them till I’m blue in the face - but in reality I think they need to be allowed to fail to learn from their own mistakes . Better to fail at 11 than 16 /18/21 .

[quote GreenLakes]@KurtWilde

The problem is that 10 years old is not too soon to be working hard if the aim is to get into a grammar or selective independent school.

All of my DC are at grammars and all of their friends worked extremely hard in preparation for the 11+. That work ethic is now ingrained in them and they are all ambitious and very hardworking.[/quote]
My children are at grammar and actually got to enjoy their childhood. They're older now and they work hard. Because they want to - not because I make their lives bloody miserable.

@Clymene

The issue is that a 10 year old (or even a 15 year old) is very rarely going to have the foresight to want to study rather than play Xbox.

It is therefore our role as parents to step in and make sure they do if necessary.