If you are very clever, how did your parents help make that happen?

[rainbowfairylights]

Background: I have been with my DP for a couple of years now. Whilst we are both intelligent people with careers we are proud of, DP does seem to have a bit of an air of... I don't know, she's definitely more clever in the sense that she knows a lot.

There are huge differences between our childhoods - I was raised in a family of borderline neglect, didn't have any extra-curricular opportunities and went to an inner-city low ranking school. DP went to one of the best schools in the country, had a variation of extra-curricular going on from sport to music, and their family spend a lot of time doing things like general knowledge quizzes, playing board games, etc etc. I left school at 15 with a mix of grades, DP left at 18 with straight A's at the highest level possible.

I suppose I'm trying to figure out how much of a difference the things DP's parents did with her made, vs how I was raised. We are both successful now and I actually have more higher education success, but as I said, DP is definitely still the more intelligent one. If you have a similar type of intelligence to my lovely DP, can you pin it on childhood experiences, is it a luck of the draw, or more of a mix?

I grew up in a family where I was surrounded by books - my first ever independent outing was to the library, and in the holidays we got to choose a museum or other interesting place to go with mum every week within a set radius of home (we only went away to my grandparents).
But I never saw my dad read a book ever, he'd left school at 14, and his sole reading material was the local paper every day and Farmers Weekly. However he never stopped asking why his whole life, had an incredibly inquisitive mind, could always solve the countdown maths problem, and encouraged me to always find out more.
Both of them always went along with enthusiasm about what we told them we'd learnt ( even when mum was totally bemused about my love of physics). I went to a bog standard comp btw, but have done well since and can always win at Trivial Pursuit if we avoid sport and celeb culture.
I think we're doing pretty well with ds(15) who reads just about anything he can get his hands on, is def a why person, and doing v well at school (our local comp). Loads of books in the house, now he has a kindle childrens account linked to mine so I can share books with him, but I get all kinds of random titles for him and don't ask what he's read until I get requests for more in that genre/subject, or he asks me questions about them. We go to all kinds of places, not just the things dh and I are interested in particularly and see what we all learn from them, with a no moaning rule from anyone

I have a high IQ and very good general knowledge, my brain retains information. I am on the autistic spectrum, and while that comes with its difficulties (I am incredibly anxious and somewhat socially inept) one of its strengths is my visual memory and general retainment.

My parents are both working class and from low income families, my mother had no formal qualifications whatsoever (but was held back by her upbringing and was actually very astute) and my father very few. Growing up my mother knew what she had in me and gently encouraged me to seek out knowledge in whatever way I liked. She would take me to the library every week and try to answer my questions.

There was a post where my knowledge and education overtook my parents', probably around age 14/15 but I never felt that it held me back. At that point I was largely self taught because I struggled socially in school and spent quite a lot of years 10 and 11 at home because of bullying. I think if my parents had been high achievers they would have been in horror at keeping me home, worrying about my exam grades and my future. But they actually set me free, I taught myself all the exam syllabuses from text books, read hundreds of novels and actually did a better job of it than my awful school did. When I passed everything with high grades, much to the surprise of all my teachers, my mum said she wasn't a bit surprised.

Sixth form was easier than GCSEs so I managed that well, and then went to a Russell Group university. Except I had no idea it was a Russell Group uni at the time, because nobody in my family had been to university. My parents didn't impose any views on me re uni choice, I just liked the course tutor who interviewed me, and the library.

So I guess my point here is that parents don't really have to 'do' much beyond encourage and nurture. I couldn't have a discussion with my parents about the Restoration, or Hamlet, at the dinner table, but that didn't hold me back.

Only negative is my family won't play Trivial Pursuit with me any more because it's 'no fun', which is a bit upsetting for me because I can't help knowing the things I know!

I got very good school grades- all A*s amd 4 As at A-level. I think that for me and my family the key thing was millions of books in the house and broadsheet newspapers and specialist magazines just lying around. Reading was a massive thing and we all read constantly from a relatively young age. I probably knew as much as a vet about cattle and other farm animals at about 13 just from the literature lying around.

• point, sorry, DS is home from school and jumping on my head

I used to share a house with someone who was privately educated and thought he was intelligent and someone who had no education past 14 but wss actually highly intelligent but as he did a manual job others thought he wasn't.
Being able to discuss classical music and remember the history of the monachy isn't the same as being able to pick up ideas, develop critical approaches and evolve those ideas into new concepts.
Confidence always helps too

Went to school in special measures for the entire time I was there came out with almost straight A's at GCSE and top A Level grades, went to a red brick university

Only extra I got from parents were a few work books at home in primary

Genetics. That makes you interested in reading and gives you a good memory so you remember what you’ve read. It’s not about lifestyle - my partner was rich and had good schooling and extra curricular activities, while I grew up on a council estate with nothing - but I’m smarter, more interested in reading and genetically predisposed to remember facts.

I think intelligence is not something you can alter or control. You may have DC that find learning difficult and do not retain information well, although it is likely that they will inherit your natural intelligence. Regardless of that, I think giving them the chance to experience as much as possible as they grow up will make them well rounded, happy people, which is what is really important.

Both DSs say their considerable "General Knowledge" is from Family game of Trivial Pursuit when they were teenagers.

They were taken round NT houses and museums from the cradle.

This is definitely about cultural capital, and that is something you can provide as parents. You're both highly intelligent, successful and interested in the world around you, so your DC are set. My parents were both extremely intelligent and well read and passed this on to me and my Dsis in a lot of ways. You don't need to read non-fiction texts to have general knowledge, there's lots to be had in fiction! I only read fiction and I'm deadly in pub quizzes - depending on the genres you read, you can learn about war, sports, history, botany, biology, militaria - the list is endless.

We replicated what we had with our DDs - so lots of books, and I read out loud to them every night until DD1 was 13. We took them to stately homes, museums, gardens - none of it presented as 'educational', so it was fun. We talked about the news, politics and current affairs with them from when they were very young.

And although they never went to private school (couldn't afford, didn't want to either), they have turned out highly intelligent, academic, curious about the world and with good social skills in any setting.

You can totally do this and you are not lacking in anything your DC might need.

You are basically asking about nature vs. nurture, and no one really knows the answer. The truth is it is probably a mixture of the two and as a parent you basically just do the best you can.

Obviously, if abuse/ neglect/ trauma is going on then it impacts a child's ability to achieve their potential and also their opportunities for being introduced to things that can develop their mind and broaden their life experiences.

If you are lucky enough not to grow up with trauma, and you have good parents who are invested in helping you grow, then you have a pretty good starting point with the "nurture" side of things.

But even then, if you have a child whose personality ("nature") just isn't inclined towards academic learning, then they will still not be likely to be "clever", because they aren't going to seek out those experiences, even when they are on offer.

At the end of the day, you can't make your child clever. If you are a good parent, you will give them access to the widest range of opportunities you can, which you hope will inspire them to learn and discover their talents, and then you follow their lead from there.

The best way to parent is not to try and "make" them be anything, but to follow them and support them in whatever they choose to do.

Both my parents were/are big readers so I think that had an effect.

Please don't fall into the Nick Gibb trap of thinking that knowledge is the key to 'levelling up'. This was a speech he gave yesterday - it's really worth watching from about 3-20 minutes if you can bear to:

www.smf.co.uk/events/raising-school-standards-through-a-knowledge-rich-curriculum-with-the-rt-hon-nick-gibb-mp/

Some highlights:
You are a failure if you can't pass a 'simple' history test (including naming 19th C British prime ministers)
Schools can close the gap between the advantaged and disadvantaged by ensuring that all children are taught the same knowledge.
History is about battles and the actions of leaders.
The idea that creativity, working in teams and problem solving are valuable skills is 'one of the most damaging myths in education today'
You cannot teach children to think
We need more 'Michaela' schools - no excuses schools
There is no reason that black children can learn about (and learn to love) the music of white men in the 17th C
The New World was 'discovered' by Europeans

All in all, it's rather scary that this is driving educational policy...

We didn't have a TV growing up. If I was bored I was told to go and read a book or explore in the garden. The house was filled with books on all sorts of subjects and nothing was off limits.

My parents & grandparents also always took the time to talk to us & we were expected to join in with adult mealtimes & therefore adult conversations from a pretty young age. I don't think my siblings and I are outstandingly clever, but we all went to Oxford University & ended up in good careers, and I think the early environment which encouraged us to be curious and have our thoughts & ideas tested has really helped.

@Stormyequine

I think intelligence is not something you can alter or control. You may have DC that find learning difficult and do not retain information well, although it is likely that they will inherit your natural intelligence. Regardless of that, I think giving them the chance to experience as much as possible as they grow up will make them well rounded, happy people, which is what is really important.

I have two kids, one is autistic (as am I) and has a learning disability, one is NT. My autistic child has savant like qualities. He can create intricate patterns that clearly demonstrate a very high grasp of number and symmetry, but he wouldn't be able to explain how he created them. He remembers layouts of locations we have visited, even if we have only visited them once, and will say to me 'milkshake this way' before taking me by hand to a cafe we sat in two years ago. He can't write his name but he has known the alphabet since the age of about 2, and can spell out words ('bureau'!) using letter tiles.

I am not a savant, I am just good at retaining information.

My NT child is very intelligent, and has always been ahead of her milestones, and I think she will do well in education, but she is someone who works hard at things, unlike her sibling who does everything on instinct.

We were not rich but my parents were academics and it was in the days before the internet. We had a big playroom, plenty of messy play opportunities (which I now understand is science learning), dress ups (language, storytelling), a huge garden with a sandpit (more science), clubhouse, and outdoor games, and we had sooo many books. Both my parents were bookworms so it was normal for us to curl up and read or to listen to stories on the radio. We were also very much encouraged to learn musical instruments, join music groups and discuss music. They weren't involved with our schooling in the way parents seem to get involved now but looking back I realise we were sent to excellent state schools where we had a lot of great opportunities.
They also made a point of taking us to the theatre, concerts, galleries and for adventures in the countryside.

I think it's much harder now to keep kids focused on books and free play because the lure of screens is so enticing. There is much to learn via screens but the brain does need down time to sift through ideas and access imagination. I think.

I think having confidence is something that you gain from a really good childhood. Sounds like you had a less than great childhood and are under confident whereas your partner is the opposite.

Personally, I think intelligence is something you are born with, but your confidence and ability to undertake academic tasks is influenced by your schooling and upbringing.

Not the point but it sounds like you are very smitten with your partner which is nice!

Both parents read to me and my sister. We are both still voracious readers. They took us to historic houses, museums and galleries, but they were also country-bred and so we did a lot of wild flower, tree, bird, farm animal, crop and animal sign identification. They introduced us to maps very early so our geography is excellent. Both were very numerate so we had none of the eyelash-batting that goes with people admitting (as if they are proud of it) that they are bad at numbers. My sister and I both went into scientific careers but have both also qualified in totally unrelated fields. In summary, I think it is about experiencing as many different areas of knowledge as possible before secondary education and letting children explore the natural environment.

I think it’s parents talking to their children about lots of different topics. My mother has her faults but she was very clever and would constantly talk to me about anything and everything - this rather than my private school gave me general interest and knowledge on a range of topics. I know plenty of dull people who went to private schools.

I've got 6 brothers and sisters. 3 super intelligent. It's the three that read a lot and always have done. Not sure that correlation=causation but it's interesting.

@rainbowfairylights

Thanks for the interesting responses everyone. This is quite eye-opening! As I mentioned up-thread I did read a lot but not because I was encouraged to and I never read non-fiction.

I guess the main reason why I'm asking is because I want our children to have a similar thirst for knowledge as DP, and as I'm the one who will be carrying (we're lesbians), if me not being as clever is down to genetics then I want to make sure I'm combatting that with nurturing knowledge and giving them the best opportunities possible. Sounds silly I know!

For me the key to this is curiosity and confidence - not the bragging, winging it sort of confidence, but a confidence that you can find a way to find out stuff, or acquire a skill.

Curiosity is key. I think children are born naturally with it . But it sure has heck can be obliterated by parents, teachers etc . When my kids were little and asked the “why, why, why” question you can give short closed answers, or even tell them to shut up as it’s annoying. On the other hand you can ask them a question back” why do you think that might be…” or start a discussion to get them to really think. An example I always talk about was when my 2ds and I were on a bus into town. Eldest about 3. My eldest was sitting next to me and we were talking about what we could see out the window. He’s was into animals and vehicles so lots of “ did you see the cow..what’s it doing” etc. A little girl was sat in front of us. She clearly was hearing the conversation and started to kneel up on the sit to see what we were talking about. Her mum snapped at her “ sit down..there’s nothing to see outside”! I was really disturbed by that. A little girls inate curiosity snapped out .

Every moment is a learning point for a child…you need to feed into their inate curiosity and desire to learn and let it fly. Sure, some of it is genetics, but a lot of it is providing the right environment form the start

I also think parenteral expectations have a lot to do with it. If you get an upbringing where parents expect, but not necessarily pressurise, you into achieve your full potential and provide those opportunities, it does help

I don’t think it has anything to do with private schools, or formal extra curriculum activities- that just means someone else does the leg work rather than the parent…i went to state comprehensive, as did my siblings and many of my friends. We made it to university in the 80’s when only about 10% of population went….and have all had good careers. The common factor is that our parents, and my friends parents nurtured that curiosity, confidence that we could achieve our full potential and provided opportunities and resources to do it.

@sergeilavrov

Engagement in the news and current affairs from a young age. My parents listened to me stand on a chair and announce my plans to ‘solve’ domestic and international issues, then asking questions posing as various journalists and MPs. Writing letters to politicians and creating presentations for pet/toy requests. Loved the Working Lunch and mum would pick me up early so I could get home in time to watch it.

20 questions general knowledge quiz every night written by my dad.

Thousands of books in our house, including shelves of my own in my bedroom - I read at least one book every day from about 4 up.

Every question I ever had got answered (and I had a lot of them) - even if it meant letters to universities or a trip to meet a chemist once at the Science Museum.

Toys for me were more creative and role play based, or exploratory. Kids learning laptop, a microchip board from a business throwing it out, doctor set with book detailing illnesses and treatments, a whiteboard for my teddy bear school.

Every time we went out, my dad played the game of “if I ordered x, y and .; how much would that be?” “If I put with a £20, what change do I need and what denominations could that be?”

Holidays and days out weren’t ever spent at the beach or pool. We would go into the city with a phrase book and explore the history and culture.

Always facing the world as a baby. High chair facing the garden to observe the squirrels, pushchair facing outward. Allowed to engage with the world too, I always had a side business going on. Sitting in our front garden selling water to runners, selling seeds I found to gardeners, eventually led to website based ventures when I worked out how to ‘borrow’ other people’s internet.

Strategic conversations: “if this, then what?” Like on coin machines, long discussions on timing and the optimum coin spread. I was a very exciting 4 year old as you can imagine

The thing is, I loved these things. If I hadn’t, it would have backfired - and that’s probably nature. Being an only child helped, given how time intensive this all was on my parents.

I am glad you loved those things but on so many levels it sounds like hell

@sergeilavrov you sound precocious but utterly adorable as a child!

Don't dismiss the genetic component @rainbowfairylights.

DH and went through school, college, then university being top in the class in every subject. People in general marry people of similar circumstances, and our children also find they're fairly good at the school stuff too.
But...it's far easier as a well educated, intelligent parent to find stimulating activities to enhance and support your child's learning than it would be for someone that had a very negative experience of education (e.g. bullying, not having needs met, not having parents that ensured attendance etc) and/or who had a limited income or access only to poor schooling, no local facilities etc etc.

Reading trumps nature and nurture every time.

Confidence, middle class or not, is a bit of a red herring. We all know the thick loud one at work. And the surgeon who lives on Prozac.

Open a book.