News on 1950s women’s Pension

[Immaculatemisconception]

Women's state pension: Compensation closer for Waspi campaigners www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57900320

Yes, women like my DSIL, born at the end of 1953, were worst affected. DSIL's friend became eligible for her state pension 18 months before DSIL, because she was born in April. DSIL was born in December. Sadly DSIL died at 63 without seeing a penny of her pension.

Lucky, "grabby" woman, eh?

I'm a WASPI woman, born in May 1955, and I've had to wait until my 66th birthday this year to get my state pension. Didn't Jeremy Corbyn's manifesto state that he'd backdate all the WASPI pensions back to age 60 for us? Fat chance! But my husband and I are very lucky, because the work pensions we have (and draw now) were final salary schemes, which as far as I know, do not exist any more in private companies. When he was Chancellor, Gordon Brown, aside from encouraging us all to buy diesel cars (and we know how that worked out) decided he'd mess with the tax relief on company pension schemes. Which made companies switch to savings based schemes. Whenever you poor sods coming after us retire, and at whatever age, your non state pensions won't pay out nearly as much relative to what you put in. The state pension is still too low to live on comfortably, and I can't see that changing. You're not paying the ridiculous interest rates we had to pay on the mortgage, but then housing is so expensive the amount you have to borrow to buy is huge. So huge that some of you won't ever get on the housing ladder. Rent is astronomical, the sold off council houses weren't replaced, so there is very little social housing. Yeah you've got more in the way of equality, but that won't pay the bills. It was wrong that I should have had to wait for my state pension without adequate notification. But you younger lot are truly screwed. That's what you should be carping about.

@Dressingdown1

I worked for a bank in the 1970s and I didn't become entitled to a pension until I had both worked there for 5 years and reached the age of 26. The men were entitled to a pension from the end of their probation period (6 months I believe). Most women were unable to meet both pension requirements because they left to have babies.

I went to work for a bank in the early 1970s, women were not put into the bank's pension scheme until they were 28 and then only if they were unmarried.

As a married woman, my husband had to sign a form at the FPC to say he agreed to me being fitted with an IUD.

[quote Soontobe60]@Iamthewombat
If you are arguing that discrimination against women is still happening, which nobody would dispute, why do you think that only the 1950s born women should be compensated? How about the women born in the 1930s and 1940s? Aren’t you bothered about them?

They received their pension when they were 60. So why would they require compensation?[/quote]
Their pension is lower than the new state pension. Plus, pro-WASPI campaigners have now attempted to argue that the less favourable maternity leave arrangements in the past means that the women disadvantaged (ie them, or their mothers) should be compensated.

If you are going to cynically co-opt the suffering of all women, including those older than you and younger than you, to argue for more money for yourself, surely you must accept that women who suffered more than you should be compensated somehow? Or are the 1950s born women the only group getting the payback? How convenient.

I can remember my mum being rushed in hospital for emergency surgery in 1978 & my dad having to sign he consented to them removing her ovaries, not because it was an emergency but because technically he owned her fertility.

I would also like to see some support from the WASPI women and that generation in doing something to put pressure on the government for a correction in house prices- build more affordable houses etc, to help younger people today. I think we should be showing solidarity with eachother.

It all becomes clear. You see the Treasury as a giant lucky dip that should pay compensation to anyone who feels a bit hard done by, especially you. Who do you think will pay for all this? I presume that you don’t expect to.

For the poster that thought 1983 was really modern and women were equal to men, they got paid the same, they could do anything they wanted. I don’t think you were around in 1983

I was. I was 12. My mother worked, and so did most of my friends’ mothers.

What I actually said about the year 1983, and I get that it’s less of a controversial statement than you would like, although don’t let that stop you from harrumphing, is that a woman born in 1953 would have been 30 in 1983 when women, including married women with children, were joining the workforce in record numbers.

How you can attempt to argue that this wasn’t so is a mystery. Equally mysterious is how you could have read that statement and concluded that I was saying that women had complete equality in 1983.

You might stand a better chance of your arguments being taken seriously if you think before you lunge for the keyboard and avoid emotional outbursts. Upthread you were bemoaning the plight of 1950s housewives, until somebody pointed out that the WASPI women were born in the 1950s. Confusing, isn’t it?

@Nat6999

I can remember my mum being rushed in hospital for emergency surgery in 1978 & my dad having to sign he consented to them removing her ovaries, not because it was an emergency but because technically he owned her fertility.

I had to sign when my husband had a vasectomy, I think it was 1979. I suppose I owned his fertility then.

Their pension is lower than the new state pension. Mine is higher as I was in S2P.

Didn't Jeremy Corbyn's manifesto state that he'd backdate all the WASPI pensions back to age 60 for us? Fat chance!

Well, when they made that manifesto promise - very late in their campaign - they knew that they had no chance of winning the election so it didn’t matter what they promised. It wasn’t going to happen.

@ancientgran

Their pension is lower than the new state pension. Mine is higher as I was in S2P.

Not many women born in the 1930s and 1940s built up a decent SERPS/S2P entitlement but you are correct that some did. However, the sob sisters on this thread are intent on hijacking the experiences of lower paid women of all ages, and so it’s those women, who qualified only for the old, lower basic state pension, I’m referencing.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

did HMRC give them enough notice so they could make up the shortfall because I don't think anyone can successfully argue that their pension age shouldn't have been increased to match that of men.

I think it's easy to successfully argue that actually their pension age shouldn't have been increased to match that of men. Did these women have the same opportunities in their working lives as men, the same career choices? Was there the same expectation on men to give up their careers to bring up children? And then end up in lower paid work or start at the bottom of the ladder again when they did return to work? Did these women receive equal pay to men? Did men experience the same workplace sexism that these women experienced throughout their working lives?

If you can answer 'yes' to all of those questions, then yes, the WASPI women's pension age should have been brought in line with men's. But you obviously can't answer yes to even one of them.

Well as someone who was in the group probably affected with shortest notice I think it is fair to equalise the retirement age. Men were retiring 5 years later and dying younger, they didn't get great value for their NI contributions did they. I left school at 15 with no qualification in 1968, when I retired from my fulltime job I was the highest paid member of staff in the business I worked in.

I had opportunities, I did 4 years day release to get professional qualifications. I didn't give up work to bring up my 4 children. So I can certainly answer yes to more than one of those questions.

Did I experience sexism in the 60s 70s 80s sure I did but I didn't let it stop me.

I've said I believe there wasn't enough notice for the second change for some women but should retirement age be equal? Yes I think it should. Was there lots of publicity about the first change? Yes I certainly saw it. Did everyone know? I have no idea.

Not many women born in the 1930s and 1940s built up a decent SERPS/S2P entitlement but you are correct that some did. However, the sob sisters on this thread are intent on hijacking the experiences of lower paid women of all ages, and so it’s those women, who qualified only for the old, lower basic state pension, I’m referencing.

SERPS was introduced in 1978 so you would have to have been born in the 1950s to fully benefit.

S2P was designed to benefit low paid and people in receipt of child benefit so actually it did benefit lower paid women. So women raising children and not working did benefit from it. It also protected the disabled, my husband has ended up with more S2P than me due to being in receipt of benefits due to his disability.

I was in a good works pension for half my working life, the second half I had 4 kids and a disabled husband so I couldn't afford to join my companies pension scheme initially, later I invested my money in other ways so in 20 years I built up my S2P. So like lots of women born in the 1950s my pension is higher than the new pension.

Fair enough @ancientgran but I've experienced enough abuse from men, sexism and misogyny in my life (albeit mainly in very different ways as obviously I was never prevented from getting a mortgage because of being a woman) that I look at how unfairly women have constantly been treated and until all of those inequalities are gone, I've no interest in the very few instances where things may be 'unfair' for men, and my opinion is that pension age isnt one of them. But that's just me. I know my mum, who is in her 60s, agrees with me and she was affected by the things I described.

It shouldn't have been on women to have to not let sexism affect them, the sexism in the first place was disgusting and I hate how it just gets brushed away and minimised.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Fair enough *@ancientgran* but I've experienced enough abuse from men, sexism and misogyny in my life (albeit mainly in very different ways as obviously I was never prevented from getting a mortgage because of being a woman) that I look at how unfairly women have constantly been treated and until all of those inequalities are gone, I've no interest in the very few instances where things may be 'unfair' for men, and my opinion is that pension age isnt one of them. But that's just me. I know my mum, who is in her 60s, agrees with me and she was affected by the things I described.

It shouldn't have been on women to have to not let sexism affect them, the sexism in the first place was disgusting and I hate how it just gets brushed away and minimised.

It is very hard to make everything fair, I guess the men who were conscripted to fight in WWII or in Korea felt it wasn't that great an advantage being a man. Personally I don't want to promote unfairness so I am happy my pension was delayed but not happy that the 2nd change didn't give women a chance to budget for the change.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind I just wanted to add that my husband is black and I'm white. I've suffered from sexism, he's suffered from racism. Do you think he should get any breaks for that?

I had men at work make inappropriate comments, he had someone spit in his face. How would you balance that.

For many years we worked in the same organisation, I think he actually missed opportunities due to his colour more than I did due to my sex.

Life's a bitch.

Separate topic but you could also argue that lots of women would have wanted the chance to join the army and actually fight, but were denied the opportunity. Women tend to be worse off in the vast majority of situations and I certainly think women my mums age were when it came to working.

@ancientgran you are incredibly fortunate to have been able to have had a career and raise 4 kids.

Can I be really curious and ask what domestic help you had, nanny, family support?

You can't be that much younger than my mum who's career progression was nonexistent mainly because she worked locally for childcare reasons rather than commuting to the nearest city where she'd have had more opportunity, better money but the downside of commute etc. And she was starting to.think about elderly relatives needing support too.

[quote korawick12345]@Moooooooooooooooooo
Given that elderly prima gravida was coined in the late 50s to refer to first time mothers over 35, you are definitely speaking complete bollocks[/quote]
I was referred to as this in 1980 aged 28.

Are you seriously suggesting that ‘lots of’ women were longing to fight on the front line in conflicts and were disappointed that they could not? Really?

It's a really good point you make @ancientgran

Of course though both sexism and racism are abhorrent and so incredibly damaging to their victims.

I take your point too that he may have missed more opportunities. It's really horrible and just as depressing to me. And I'd understand it if people who felt they'd been discriminated against because of their skin colour also went to court and campaigned about it too!

I don't know how anyone can right all of the past injustices that many different groups of people have faced. Specifically on the WASPI thing though- I personally don't view it as WASPI women getting a 'break' as such. I just see it as them getting what should rightfully be theirs.

I do take your point though and admit it's just so difficult because how do you compensate for every past injustice? Very depressing.

If we can't change the past as well I really wish we could at least change it for the future, that's the worst thing for me. Racism still exists. Sexism still exists. It's unbelievable to me, in 2021. I'm probably just stupid and naive but I find it shocking.

@Viviennemary

A lot of women had the life of riley in the 1950s. Plenty of time for doing what they wanted and not obliged to go to work because one wage was enough to keep the family.

Even if this were generally true (and some women of all ages live and have lived such a life) the women you speak of are not the women affected by the pension changes.

@Iamthewombat

Are you seriously suggesting that ‘lots of’ women were longing to fight on the front line in conflicts and were disappointed that they could not? Really?

Wtaf? No, I was suggesting that they probably weren't happy that SEXISM prevented them from having the same choice to be able to do it or not. I doubt anyone was happy that there was a front line anywhere for anyone to be fighting on.

Fucking hell. The comprehension levels are astounding on here at times.

I was born in 1953 and didn’t even have a bank account, never mind a credit card or a mortgage, until 1980-something. In my case it was lifestyle choice but for many many women in lower paid jobs, trying to juggle childcare, work and looking after a home on an inadequate cash income (many people, men and women, received a cash weekly wage packet well into the 80s and beyond), it wasn’t. I knew about the proposed pension changes because by the time they were in the pipeline I was well-informed but I completely understand why some women weren’t and agree that not enough was done to make it clear to them.
I feel very lucky that I’m reasonably comfortable in my old age, though I still work. I’ve done my best, and still do, to ensure that my children and grandchildren are financially secure and properly informed so they can plan for the future. Some of the resentful ageism on this thread is very unpleasant to read and as others have said, solidarity and support among women of all ages is far better than divisive jealousy and bitterness.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind to be fair that is exactly what it sounded like you were suggesting