Why are surgeons such arrogant arseholes

[KirtonandKim]

*not all of them

Seasoned manager of over 25 years. Brought in to manage a team of surgeons who have ridiculous retention of staff (they can’t). Managers, operational, PAs and juniors - they cannot retain anyone.

2 months in and I can see why. They are without a doubt the most arrogant group of people I’ve ever had the misfortune of trying to manage. I’ve managed “bad” teams before - but nothing like this. And it’s just shrugged and accepted as “what surgeons are like”.

They know they are untouchable - they know they have us over a barrel and we can’t sack them. But the constant moaning and bitching and whining and utter lack of any insight into their own behaviour is fucking flabbergasting

God I can’t face work tomorrow

Surgeon 1: I like to call him Australia surgeon. All he ever talks about is how good he would have it in Australia and how shit the NHS is compared to Australia.

At no point has he worked in Australia.

Or even attempted to work there.

This doesn’t stop him from constantly telling me how shit we are; this country is; the NHS is and how much better his life would be in Australia. I’ve asked him why he doesn’t move then. He can’t because the schools are shit

Surgeon 2: seems to think he is doing us a favour by coming to work. Forgets the £100000 he is paid to do his actual job. Has had 3 PAs leave in the space of a year because he talks to them like shit. Refuses to change his behaviour as he remembers when PAs “were actually personal assistants”. His expectations of them seem to be that they make him tea, check in on him constantly and wait on him hand and foot.

It's a long time since I worked with surgeons.
Had hoped they might have evolved into nice humans by now.
I've met a few 'normal' ones but they are in the minority.
I think surgeons have to be so resilient they assume everyone else is the same.
They mostly need putting in their place by someone with a stronger character.

I wonder if it's because you need to have huge self confidence to do their job?

Probably because most are psychopaths and I for one am glad!

One of the surgeons at my place told us that there are two types of surgeon - bastards, and slow bastards 🤷🏼‍♀️

Sounds awful, who is their actual leader? The culture change has to come from the top.

Unfortunately it is surgeons. I've also worked with a lot of consultants and they are mostly (bar a few) the same. Arrogant and entitled! I'm not sure if it's because the job is so difficult they just have to be dicks to get through it?

@AuldWan

I wonder if it's because you need to have huge self confidence to do their job?

A friend of mine is a doctor. This is her view. You have to be arrogant to do it. When you pick up that knife, you need total belief that you will make the incision in the right place. If you question yourself, you couldn’t do that job. I’ve heard the same said of fighter pilots; they all share the unshakeable belief that they can land their plane.

@AuldWan

I wonder if it's because you need to have huge self confidence to do their job?

Absolutely this. If I had to have an operation I would want a super confident surgeon, not one full of self doubt. I appreciate its hard for you to work with/manage them but it's a job where a certain type of personality is needed.

I kinda agree although they might be nice on a personal level, that I would want my surgeon to be the most confident self assured person there is

A few friends are surgeons and I sort of admire it. I think you tend to get something similar with most people who are very successful and reach a level of seniority where they’re not readily answerable to anyone. A lot of lawyers and bankers are the same!

I thought/hoped this type of behaviour was no longer the norm, and that the days of people thinking of surgeons as gods were gone.

But I don’t work with them, I’m just related to them (not all of them obviously!)

Good luck at work tomorrow, it’s a horrible feeling dreading going to work. It doesn’t sound as if you stand for the bad attitude so keep on giving as good as you get!

My brother is a very senior consultant in his field and is a lovely fella. He likes baking and regularly takes in treats for his team.

To be fair, I have also encountered some massive twats in the profession too.

Our surgeons are lovely. I've only met a couple of arseholes.

@Twelvetimestwo

Probably because most are psychopaths and I for one am glad!

Definitely!

I do know one absolutely LOVELY surgeon if that makes you feel any better. All the staff love him.
He was once stopped from mopping his theatre after surgery 😂

I do think you need a rhino hide to some degree to do the job. You have to cut human beings open and rearrange their insides, and so on top of absolute unshakeable certainty that you are right you sort of need to think of people as faulty machines rather than flesh and blood, which doesn't make for superb bedside manner. Otherwise you'd never have the stomach to do it.

This doesn't really help you with the job, I know. I'd do my best to acquire a rhino hide of your own.

I used to work with a load and that’s exactly what they are like. We had a joke ‘What’s the difference between God and a Surgeon? God doesn’t think he’s a Surgeon’.

They are brilliant, and arrogant and that’s how they have to be to do what they do.

My only advice is try and make their lives as easy as possible, get them whatever they want and then they tend to be bearable. Just let all the other crap go in one ear and out the other, it saves your stress levels so much.

I honestly wish you all the luck in the world!

Eugh, how awful. Self confidence is on thing, but arrogance and superiority is another.

Have you had a sit down, face to face meeting where you've laid it out? You may be a brilliant surgeon, but you're a dreadful colleague. Showing people respect is not difficult and for a clever person, who does truly difficult things all day, you're letting yourself down and making yourself seem like a total areswipe. Why do you do it? I'm here to try and help you retain staff, but this is on you. If you can't adjust your attitude you will never end up with a slick team around you, helping you to be an even better surgeon. Are you having difficulty understanding this? Or is it your God awful attitude?

Surgeon 3: classic god complex. Dislikes women and anyone who isn’t a consultant. Doesn’t seem to know what to do with the female consultant so just pretends she doesn’t exist. Threw a set of notes down a corridor and refused to pick them up after a nurse refused to put up with his shit

The biggest twat I came across in the past 12 months was my gynae surgeon. Arrogant, rude, misogynist. He absolutely hated the fact that I asked him lots of questions and challenged him - (with I rather enjoyed) and told me to get a second opinion. Twat. His surgical skills were fantastic though and he treated my condition. Hope to never see him again.

“
My only advice is try and make their lives as easy as possible, get them whatever they want and then they tend to be bearable. Just let all the other crap go in one ear and out the other, it saves your stress levels so much”

I’ve heard this advice before. I absolutely 100% bloody well will not bend down to these people. What do you do with a toddler throwing a tantrum? Ignore ignore ignore. Why am I bribing someone to do their actual job?! Fuck that

@Milomonster he sounds exactly like the one I had. Seemed to be gutted I didn’t have ovarian cancer. Strangely I was really pleased about it he was a great surgeon though. Zero bedside manner.

DH cousin is a surgeon, he has an ego that is suffocating and is an absolute pain. I remember when he bought a yacht, he freely admits to not being interested in sailing it’s just because it’s another way to show he is incredibly well off.

Only one I ever met saved me from bleeding to death.
He actually came across as fairly humble, a touch brisk and to the point but not arrogant.