Family Lunch Dilemma. 'Hovering'.

[JennieLee]

There's going to be a family reunion - after relaxation of Covid regs - tomorrow.

It will involve self, husband, my older brother and his wife (hosting), my younger brother and my elderly mother (eg 6 of us).

My younger brother has been particularly worried about the risks of Covid. He has had both his vaccinations - as we all have - and has no underlying health conditions. He lives and works alone.

My older brother has a large dining table and a well-ventilated room. He can keep the French windows open while we eat as it is a warm day.

He has declared that for safety reasons he won't sit with the family at the meal, but will instead 'hover' or sit at the breakfast bar to eat.

I find it really hard to eat when somebody is hovering - particularly if they are behind me.

I could cope with eating a very quick informal snack in these conditions. But it's going to be real trial to attempt to sit through a long heavy, supposedly celebratory meal - with hours of hovering.

I don't think anyone else in the family likes the hovering either. It occurred at Xmas and Easter meals when I wasn't present.

But everyone else is very conflict averse. I'm going to be immediately characterised as the 'difficult' one, if I ask him to sit with us.

Any thoughts?

I'm autistic and recognise a lot of your brothers behaviours. I wonder if he might be too. If he was anything like me, it won't just be the virus. It'll be the overwhelmingness of spending time with people. The sensory issues it causes - the noises, the smells, the wrong kind of chairs, carpets, food etc. Plus knowing (and he will know) that you and others are pissed off at him.

Personally I prefer hovering near an exit until I feel safe.

why don't you all just do the free lateral flow tests before you meet - to reduce risk and anxiety?

@JennieLee

I agree that the hovering is just the 'icing on the cake' . Posting has made it clearer to me.

The underlying issue is my mother's denial of increasing disability and her stubbornness. (Scoliosis, arthristis, cataracts, cognitive decline) While she still has capacity to make choices - even if they are wrong ones - it distresses me that she is living in a circumstances that increase her risk of falling, that she is not claiming the Attendance Allowance, which she would get and that she does not get visits from a carer to assist her in activities of daily living.

My brothers do not seem to want to intervene to encourage/support her in making any changes and when I raise the issue I am seen as 'the difficult' one.

I wrote to her GP asking is he'd visit because I was so concerned, My older brother then got fed up with me and asked me not to do this,

My mother is not only averse to change. She also prioritises male opinions over female ones. I am her least favourite child.

I just have to go, eat lunch and then get on with my life.

"I just have to go, eat lunch and then get on with my life."

yes i am afraid you do. My late Mum made choices that really worried myself and my siblings but, like your Mum, she had capacity so we couldn't do a thing.
Maybe (and I mean this nicely) she prefers your brothers' attitude to yours? Can I also suggest that "wrong choices" is your opinion. Even if she had lost capacity, you are still not entitled to make your choices over hers...I used to do this for a living and I know the Mental Capacity Act well. The final question before anyone can make choices that they think are in the best interests of the person is, and I may have the wording slightly wrong, "Is there anything to indicate what the choice would be if the person still had capacity?" and the guidance talks about previous comments or actions.
In your Mum's case, by her choices and behaviour it seems clear to me that she would not want the choices that you want to make for her. I know its hard....I know personally that its hard and also professionally....you aren't/weren't/will be the only child in your circumstances and I worked with many. oh and writing to the GP is a huge no no. We used to talk to my Mum's GP but we had her permission to do so.

I am so sorry I can't give different advice but that's the story.

Perhaps putting into perspective for him the number of + cases per 100,000 in your area. If everyone is well, use hand gel/washing, do a LFT prior to arriving and good ventilation perhaps you could reassure him the risk is minimal. He would hate working in a school right now!

@Getoutofbed25

Perhaps putting into perspective for him the number of + cases per 100,000 in your area. If everyone is well, use hand gel/washing, do a LFT prior to arriving and good ventilation perhaps you could reassure him the risk is minimal. He would hate working in a school right now!

I think the issue is WAY bigger than hovering!

If he's not comfortable then he shouldn't come IMHO. I would go into the garden and eat my meal. I wouldn't allow him to hover over me.

I think hovering is rude - if he's going to catch covid after two vaccinations in a room with family who presumable have also been vaccinated then hovering isn't going to make any difference.
It's all a bit attention seeking 'I will grace you with my presence because I am so fascinating, but I won't actually sit with you bunch of diseasemongers'

He sounds pretty irritating all round on fact and since heis your Mum's main carer, he doesn't need to catch up with her, so he doesn't actually need to be there, if he just fancies having a family meet up then, it's a family meet up not a family 'hover'.

Having said all that it does sound as if your younger brother may have certain quirks he can't help, but that doesn't mean no body can tell him when that behaviour is unreasonably or impacting others. I would find someone hovering while I was trying to eat a relaxed meal pretty annoying.
And if the meal goes ahead as planned then I wouldn't be making adaptations like speaking louder or turning my head to speak to him, he has the option of sitting at the table if he want's to be involved in conversation.

"It's all a bit attention seeking 'I will grace you with my presence because I am so fascinating, but I won't actually sit with you bunch of diseasemongers'"

Isn't it funny how people take things as attacks on them when it probably doesn't reflect anything of the sort.

I've said a few posts back that I'm like this. In my case the last thing I want is attention, and it's not a judgey thing at others either. I may not be good at interacting with people, but that doesn't mean I don't love them or enjoy their company - I just need time to adapt, and ideally prefer no one paying attention at all while I do so.

Maybe OP's brother struggles in similar ways.

Even if she had lost capacity, you are still not entitled to make your choices over hers..

For me the main issue relates to falls. Her balance is particularly poor because of excessive curvature of the spine. Her age means that her bones are not strong and her sight is impaired.

She would hate to fall, be in hospital - and then perhaps be discharged into a setting where she had less independence.

She has a bath everyday and will not make adaptations to her bathroom, relying instead on a flimsy chair by the bath. If she grabbed onto that, it would not be sufficient to stop her falling.

its a bit ridiculous, what does he think will happen if he hovers rather than sits down?

@Sunshinebunshine

Well you seem like a quirky family... Your brother wants to hover. You are being judgy about someone behind you when eating (how do you deal will restaurants and waiters). Just accept each others quirks

I would say they seem like a family who each have a range of sensory needs.

can you all take a test the day before and then before the meal - wouldn't that be a safer option?

Why is his hovering worse than someone not coping with hovering?

If he feels more comfortable sitting away from people, I would probably encourage that, then hopefully that suits everybody

@ivykaty44

its a bit ridiculous, what does he think will happen if he hovers rather than sits down?

Maybe it makes it easier to escape things he feels are threats.

@JennieLee

Even if she had lost capacity, you are still not entitled to make your choices over hers..

For me the main issue relates to falls. Her balance is particularly poor because of excessive curvature of the spine. Her age means that her bones are not strong and her sight is impaired.

She would hate to fall, be in hospital - and then perhaps be discharged into a setting where she had less independence.

She has a bath everyday and will not make adaptations to her bathroom, relying instead on a flimsy chair by the bath. If she grabbed onto that, it would not be sufficient to stop her falling.

Exact same situation as my Mum and my answer remains the same

The dynamic sounds extremely frustrating, and of course concerning re your mum, but someone hovering should be something you can ignore. People walk around restaurants, the break out room at work, picnics etc. not being able to eat because someone is standing nearby seems pretty limiting. Of course, you see now that there are bigger problems. I think you need to think what would I do re my mum if I really didn’t give a shit what my brothers thought, as they sounds like tossers, then also think would it work or just get your mums back up.

I can't see the big deal. Just ignore him, enjoy your meal and let him do his thing. You're not the host, it's not your problem.

@JennieLee

Oh and yes, there's a POA though the provision is that decisions - certainly major ones - should be made jointly by all siblings, where possible.

In which case, given your brothers’ views, you need to butt out. You live too far away to provide any practical help in any case.

To be honest, you all sound completely bonkers.

Exact same situation as my Mum and my answer remains the same.

I think the problem is that as mental capacity deteriorates people want two incompatible things,

So my mother may wish to be independent, not to make any changes, etc.

She may also wish to stay safe, while having diministed capacity to assess risk.

She has very clearly and consistently expressed that her over-riding wish is to be able to stay in her current accommodation as long as possible.

This is why my mother arranged Power of Attorney. She could see friends neglecting themselves and putting themselves at risk. She said she didn't want this to happen to her.

A serious fall would jeopardise this, because, at this point medical staff will take change of a situation and not discharge her from hospital - unless they felt she can be discharged into an appropriately safe situation.

So I do feel a sense of responsibility to encourage her to take steps that would minimise this risk. And to encourage my brothers, whose opinions she respects more.

@Providora

I can't see the big deal. Just ignore him, enjoy your meal and let him do his thing. You're not the host, it's not your problem.

Exactly. Just eat and enjoy. If he isn't at the table you will find it easier to blank his monologues.

It sounds like it's going to be a tricky meal whether he's at the breakfast bar or the table TBH.

OP,
Re the brother pacing, perfectly reasonable for you to insist that he does it far away from you are the other end of the room, preferably near the french doors.

Make the visit short and sweet.
It certainly doesn't sound like a long leisurely lunch, so make plans to have an exit time.

Perfectly reasonable to have to be else where for a specific time so you have an out.

You know what? I don't have any advice but that would really annoy me. There's a reason that we make children stay at the table while other people are eating.

It isn't the same as a restaurant - you don't have to interact with people sitting at different tables in restaurants because they aren't part of your group.

I hope it goes well and that you have a relaxing time afterwards (once you get home).

Maybe get him a chair so that he can be seated away from the table , so that he's stationary and not hovering.
Maybe with a padded tray so he can eat?

Why isn't your mum's bathroom set up for an elderly person, given she's in that kind of residential setting?

Honestly, can't you just ignore this and get through the meal. It might not be perfect and you might not like it but it is a family meal. Just smile, chat, eat and don't add to the situation.