Family Lunch Dilemma. 'Hovering'.

[JennieLee]

There's going to be a family reunion - after relaxation of Covid regs - tomorrow.

It will involve self, husband, my older brother and his wife (hosting), my younger brother and my elderly mother (eg 6 of us).

My younger brother has been particularly worried about the risks of Covid. He has had both his vaccinations - as we all have - and has no underlying health conditions. He lives and works alone.

My older brother has a large dining table and a well-ventilated room. He can keep the French windows open while we eat as it is a warm day.

He has declared that for safety reasons he won't sit with the family at the meal, but will instead 'hover' or sit at the breakfast bar to eat.

I find it really hard to eat when somebody is hovering - particularly if they are behind me.

I could cope with eating a very quick informal snack in these conditions. But it's going to be real trial to attempt to sit through a long heavy, supposedly celebratory meal - with hours of hovering.

I don't think anyone else in the family likes the hovering either. It occurred at Xmas and Easter meals when I wasn't present.

But everyone else is very conflict averse. I'm going to be immediately characterised as the 'difficult' one, if I ask him to sit with us.

Any thoughts?

It does sound like a very irritating dynamic. I am in a similar situation with my family except I'm single which means my family see me as ''lower status'' and it's a very authoritarian / subject relationship, STILL, even though I'm 51! Plus my parents are a couple, and a unit, and back each other up no matter what madness they're pushing up hill.

It's so exasperating.

I'd go to the dinner with a smile stapled on to your face. Detach detach detach.

If your brother starts going on about fiber optic cables and your mother is hanging on his every word like it's the best story she's ever been told, quietly look around the table to see if anybody would be subtly open to another quiet conversation.

Good plan StayCalm!

You both sound like hard work tbh
Just ignore him. It's a quirk. Maybe he has always hated sitting at a table to eat with you all. He has finally found a reason not to.
Just crack on and enjoy your meal.

@DishingOutDone

Why are posters normalising the brother’s behaviour whilst trying to make the OP feel odd for objecting?! I think it would ruin the meal if one person wanted to prance around the room!

I know, no matter how grounded, centred and at peace you are within yourself amidst strange family dynamics, having somebody hovering behind you while you eat would be discombobulating.

My dad was a hoverer. He would hover to the side, right on th edge of my sight.

I would give anything to see him again, but would then want to kill him dead for bloody hovering.

Sibling one up manship. Let it go and leave the redundant family dynamic behind.

@GoWalkabout

Sibling one up manship. Let it go and leave the redundant family dynamic behind.

How do you reset family dynamics? i've been trying for over a year to get my family to stop calling me paranoid. This results in accusations that i'm sensitive. then when I point that out, i'm ''angry''. When I step away from the madness I'm labelled silly and dramatic.

There is literally no way to call time on entrenched family dynamics. Or is there?

a year and a half of very low contact has not fixed the family dynamic in my own FOO

@JennieLee

I hadn't actually realised my younger brother was going to be there. But my older brother invited him.

He has various peculiarities - another of which is attempting to dominate the conversation with long monologues about subjects that are not of general interest. He is also my Mother's favourite!

I'd seen this as a chance to catch up with my Mum who I have not see for nearly 18 months, and find out a bit more about her increased needs for support now that she is in her mid-nineties.

But it is what it is. Or will be what it will be.

You needed your brother to make arrangements so you could see your mum who is mid nineties for the first time in 18 months? And you previously asked him to host a BBQ so you could see your mum?

Can you not just visit your mum on a separate occasion at a time that suits you and her to do this? Why do you need to wait for your brother to organise a BBQ or a meal so that you can do this?

Is your mum completely independent or has your brother been looking after her during this time you haven’t seen her in relation to shopping, appointments, life admin etc? If he has been doing this, then I think you’d need to get on with it in the way your brothers have organised and be grateful for their help rather than dwelling on the “hovering”. .

You're making out like he is being precious but you are being very precious also.

No issue. Make sure you're sitting so he's not behind you. If it's that awful eat before or after and just have a drink at lunch.

We have to both accommodate and be accommodated in social settings.

Yes, it's about the dynamics, OP.
Not easy, but leave them to it. They won't change, imo.
As pp suggested, if it's possible to have another conversation, try to do that.

Focus on whatever is enjoyable about the occasion, as much as possible.

Off topic but have you got a POA in place for your DM?

This is all quite amusing, it sounds like a version of musical chairs,but has to be done in silence.

If the dining table is going to be such a hotbed of Covid with 5 fully vaccinated people around it why don’t 2 join your brother at the safe breakfast bar.

I agree with pp’s. Just turn up, eat food and smile then leave and get on with your life.
Untill your mother asks for help then there is nothing to be done and even then I would leave it up to the brothers to organise

I'd hate someone hovering for that long.
probably because I have ADHD & anxiety so they'd distract & irritate me & making me feel uncomfortable.
If I knew him hovering was non-negotiable I think I'd probably not go.
I couldn't cope.

but I wouldn't give a fuck what anyone else thought about me or labelled me as. I had that all my life, being called names and being judged & criticised for things I can't do because of what I can't change. I'm so done with paying attention to that.
I can't control what others think and it's not my job to make people understand me.

I would not ask him to join for the very same reasons though.
If I couldn't compromise, I don't see why he should

If your brother had a diagnosis would you be more accepting? Reading your description he certainly sounds like he has characteristics that might qualify him. I agree with the person who said that he probably appears to be the ‘favourite’ as your mum knows he’s vulnerable. Your brother is hosting you’re just a guest, you really do just have to put up with it, it sounds like it’s an infrequent thing so just grit your teeth. I’m not sure why you don’t just host a bbq yourself if that would be more bareable, is there a reason the eldest brother has to host? Is there a reason why you can’t just go to your mums house without getting your siblings involved. I don’t quite understand that bit..

My mother lives approximately 2 hours drive away using an invariably busy motorway - unless one gets up really early!. She does not have a garden and has very limited mobility so meeting in some rural place or a pub outdoors has not really been an option, until the recent relaxation of rules.

She also gets tired very easily now. So there are some advantages in seeing her alongside other family members/or at some one else's house. This means if she starts to flag she can drift off, without feeling the responsibility of hosting. (It also means I'm not doing 4 hrs of motorway driving for what is essentially 30 minutes of interaction.)

Over the last month, I've also had a (needed) holiday and visited a new grandchild, so this has been more or less the first weekend when a visit has been possible.

She lives in a development for the elderly - independently occupied flats - where the managament is still trying to minimise visits by people from outside 'bubbles' in order to protect frail residents. (I live in a city where Covid cases are rising, and obviously could carry infection despite having been vaccinated . So meeting at my brother's nearby seemed like a good option.

I can't cope with this either. Lots of complicated reasons but basically I'd be having a panic attack if someone with someone hoovering near me.

Oh and yes, there's a POA though the provision is that decisions - certainly major ones - should be made jointly by all siblings, where possible.

You say it happened during an Easter meal, but if I recall correctly at easter we were still in lockdown and he should have been meeting your family for lunch anyway. He can’t be that anxious. Happy to be corrected on what the rules were at that point though.

I don't think OP meant this Easter & Xmas, but ones in the past

I do not understand why you cannot go and visit your mother independently of your brother making arrangements?

If you want to pop by to see her in the morning then go and do it. Nothing you have said here precludes you from doing that.

If you want to arrange a visit in a garden then do so. Why do you need your brother to do it all for you?

You're choosing to be helpless and the blaming your brothers for not accommodating that by arranging everything you want to happen for you. You're an adult, you can do this stuff on your own.

As for the excuse about the primitive brain needing to be safe from predators whilst eating, that doesn't make sense - the primitive brain still recognises who and what i safe in our environment in order to avoid constantly overreacting to stimuli and exhausting our resources. Plus we can learn skills to manage those responses if they have been disrupted by trauma.

You're creating problems that don't exist in order to force what's happening to fit into the narrative you have in your head about your family and where you fall within it.

Objectively, the narrative you're trying to overlay onto this situation (of being hard done by in your family, victimised and helpless) doesn't fit the facts as presented. It may have been valid at some time in the past but there's no sign of it here.

I think we have to be kind to each other. Your brother is concerned about catching a nasty disease.

You may think that he’s misguided, but he’s done almost 18 months of lockdown living alone and has been able to control the risks he’s exposed to.

It may take him sometime to be able to relax into whatever the new “normal” is.

I think his need to stay safe (in his mind) is a bit more important than your thing about “hovering” (maybe you’re both just weird).

I think you could be rather more tolerant.

@Disfordarkchocolate

I can't cope with this either. Lots of complicated reasons but basically I'd be having a panic attack if someone with someone hoovering near me.

@Disfordarkchocolate

yup.
I had counselling because of anxiety & panic attacks and when I have one I know how to gain control, but I'd rather just avoid a situation where I'm likely to react.

just reading about it & trying to imagine it made feel like I'd want to run away.

If you have any clear plastic sheeting, you could rig up a screen for your brother, then he could sit at the table.

I've read most of the thread but not all of it so apologies if this has been raised.

As you originally wanted to have a catch up with your mum in the morning could you not go to hers, have a catch up, check she is coping ok, and then drive her to your older brothers for lunch? It seems that's the crux of the matter really.

As for your younger brother he does sound annoying, nothing worse than someone full of their own importance who doesnt let anyone get a word in and will be wandering around while everyones trying to eat and chat.

If it's warm enough to have the French doors open, why not just move the table outside? However awkward you think he's being, he's been invited just like everyone else so it'd be nice to make it comfortable for all involved.