Should DH move abroad for job alone or should we join him? Dilemma.

[insertrandomusernamehere]

DH has been offered a job abroad in a Middle Eastern country to start in a few weeks and he’s accepted. As happy as I am for him; I’m absolutely terrified of what life is going to be like alone, raising our very young DC (18m and almost 3 year old). Both DC are at nursery PT and will be doing longer hours from September when I’d planned to return to work. This job offer has completely thrown me. It means changing our lives entirely- the children having to settle at a new nursery and adjust to a new way of life is panicking me the most. Or, maybe I’m projecting and am worrying about how I’ll cope in an environment/culture that is materialistic/superficial/misogynistic?

My plans for September also included taking driving lessons and becoming a bit more independent with a car for my sake and the DC. Husband is desperate for us to move but I’m not sure what to do. Should I throw caution to the wind, move us all out with him (pack our lives into boxes by the 2nd of July) and see how life works out for us all? Or, should I wait it out and let my husband settle there first, pass probation and get the ‘lay of the land’ before we join him? Or, should I stay put with the DC and we can take turns visiting one another every half term/end of term? The latter would mean less disruption for DC (my absolute priority) since they’ll still have their nursery space and key workers and other children they’re familiar with and would also mean I can focus on myself a bit too- I’m itching to get back to work. I’m scared I won’t cope alone but I won’t know until I try it, will I?

One of my biggest worries is that I’ve had horrendous PND since the birth of my older DC and I’ve needed my husband’s support to get things done and look after the children when I’ve not had the energy to get out of bed. I’m scared, left to my own devices, I might crumble. Massively. Having said that, he’ll be working silly hours in his new job so it’s not as if he’ll be able to help me out there BUT nannies/house help is cheap I’m the ME so I’d be able to buy in help? But, then I’ll worry they’re out of the British system/way of doing things and how that will negatively impact them when we come back? Argh, as you can tell, I’m struggling with all this massively. Can someone shed any light on living abroad with young children? Or even guide me on what I should do next? I’m so, so lost right now.

Apologies for the garbled post. I’ve been trying to sleep for ages but sleep just isn’t coming right now because of my anxiety around this impending move.

No. I've moved abroad. Your marriage needs to be solid to survive it.

As well, he's not getting a family package, so the salary won't cover your expenses. You will have to pay for private education there and that alone will make it unaffordable.

As one of the few posters who has actually lived in the Gulf, I think you should go for it.

• your marriage is not great at the moment. Being apart will not improve it. Especially in the gulf. In my experience, at least 70% of men who left their families at home will cheat on them.
• you can come back pretty easily if you decide to do so - you’ve said he wouldn’t want to be the primary parent so he is unlikely to invoke sharia law about children staying with the father. Also, it sounds like your kids are too young for that to apply anyway. Home is just a plane ride away.
• Middle Eastern schools are just Ike the U.K. - some good, some bad. But even the bad ones have smaller class numbers compared to the U.K. and that is a massive benefit to kids in the early years.
• you and the children will be exposed to new and different culture, you may find you like it, even if you don’t, you will learn from it.

I think, if you don’t go, you are essentially calling time on your marriage now. If you do go, you may find your marriage improves as it is the two of you working together, united, in a new country and culture. Or it may be too much and you still spilt up further down the line. But at least going gives you a chance.

My DH was offered an amazing package in a European country. He wanted me to quit my job and move with the family, taking my son out of his special school. I refused and stayed at home as I wanted to see how he got on with the job first.

Five months in he was let go during his probation period and came home. I am so glad I didn't give up my job for him or take my son out of his school as we had fought for years to get the right place for him.

In your situation I would definitely stay at home. If you are worried how you would cope alone would an au pair be an option to give you some support and company?

My starting point in decision making would be

1. The local laws. What are my rights like in the new country. Being a woman is hard enough in most western countries so I would carefully review the laws in the country or destination.
2. What would my immigration status be and how dependent does it make me on DH. Am I allowed to work? Sign a lease? Open a bank account?
3. Do the countries laws and our immigration status allow me to leave with the children even if DH objects? I know you say he would never want primary custody but relying on this in an international custody case is simply foolish.

@Normaigai

I've been in that part of the world over 10 years. First off, don't go with him and spend a month in a hotel room with two kids at the height of summer. That will be a nightmare.

I concur with the others - if your relationship isn't strong, don't move. The reality (sadly) is that your relationship probably won't survive this - I can count on one hand the couple's who've done this and the husband hadn't ended up cheating. But it sounds like your marriage probably isn't going to survive anyway. Locating a family is massively expensive (you will spend at least £8k on moving and set-up costs) and from what you've said doing that and then splitting up put you in financial hell.

100% this.

I came on to say ‘do it!’ I’ve been very happily living in the ME for ten years and have had 3 kids here and so was going to write loads of advice about moving, raising children here etc.

BUT based on everything else you’ve said, it has disaster written all over it. Stay at home, you can always come out to visit (if you want to)

"As for not going for custody of dc - do not underestimate the motivation that hurt angry exes have for doing whatever they know will hurt you the most. "

This. A million times. Don't go. There's nothing in it for you and the kids will be fine. He sounds like a self absorbed tosser if I'm honest. Save yourself.

Having lived abroad and loved it, no way would I do it unless it was super financially beneficial. Are you sure you would be that much ahead financially? Rentals and outgoings (like electricity) can be huge in the ME.

Don’t go OP.
A month in a hotel in summer, in the ME where temperatures can reach 50° is madness.
I certainly wouldn’t be moving for a paltry 2k salary increase either, especially if neither accommodation or health is included, that really is madness.
My friend’s husband worked in the UAE for years, when his contract was abruptly ended his residency visa was automatically withdrawn and they had 2 weeks to pack up and leave before their bank account was frozen and they were arrested. They had paid upfront for car lease, apartment etc and lost the lot.
I definitely wouldn’t go!

If your marriage is already in trouble I would not even entertain moving there…

I'd definitely let him go ahead and see how it pans out - moving is really expensive and stressful and Middle Eastern jobs can be a bit random (in that vs. other places a higher proportion of them seem to be mis-sold, or don't work out for other reasons- caveat: based on personal experience (used to live in Dubai), not statistics). It would also be significantly cheaper for him to go as a single man than to move the whole family as no school fees, can just get a studio appt. etc.

That said, bear in mind that hopping back and forth is significantly more expensive and difficult than it was due to quarantine restrictions/ possible red listing etc. I live in HK and I basically cant leave as to come back I need to do 21 days hotel quarantine. Have been stuck here for 18 months. I know ME has been more relaxed but still.... flights are $$$$ compared to what they were.

You have to pay your own housing?

If so, and there isn’t a built in allowance in the package you’ll struggle to save anything.

Having lived in the ME for more than 4 decades it’s not a place I’d come with a rocky marriage because it will more than likely be the death of it due to how hard it is to make these kind of moves.

Life here in the ME is very expensive even for nationals and all sorts of subsidies that even expats benefitted from are being removed. Inflation is quite high and it seems that everyone is handing out more and more money by way of vat for example every month.

If your husband won’t reconsider then let him come first and see the lie of the land but I also think this is a really good chance for you to see that you could cope on your own outside of your marriage.

All the best to you.

@insertrandomusernamehere

Our marriage is shit atm already so probably wouldn't survive the long distance which is why DH is probably insisting we move with him. We're currently doing couples counselling with mixed results. He wouldn't want custody of the DH if things went wrong- he knows how demanding being the primary parent is and he's not willing to sacrifice his wants and needs for the children. I'm scared I'd get there and be left just to get on with things.

Absolutely not. I would 100% stay.

Your marriage might not stand the distance but it definitely won’t stand you being there.

What a selfish prick accepting this without consideration for his family.

The ME is very expensive so I wouldn’t be confident of clearing debt and paying for living expenses on a less than amazing salary.

It would be a hell no from me- schlep two children away from their home without even a desirable financial package, no friends, no family- sounds stressful and lonely sorry! it would be so hard without relocation costs etc being covered. As for my marriage, my husband leaves me with 2 preschoolers it’s over!

I’ve lived in that region and frequently visit friends there now.

Even if you had a rock solid marriage and were keen to go I’d advise caution. The job offer sounds crap.

Housing usually requires a year’s rent up front. There are tons of other setting up costs, the bureaucracy is horrific. Any decent employer would offer housing, car, education, annual return tickets to home country - and most importantly comprehensive family medical cover. A professional “hand holder” to help with paperwork and settling in is often provided too.

There’ll be someone waiting to fleece you at every turn. One of your first experiences will be with estate agents and landlords - a right nest of vipers.

The days of over generous salaries with wifey lounging at the poolside
are long gone.

Please tell me he’s not been recruited into the finance/investments industry.

What is the worst case scenario in both plans?

It sounds like your marriage is going to fail regardless and if your husband is as selfish as he sounds, he could use the custody laws to spite you.

That’s a hell of a lot worse than your marriage falling apart here.

The move aside, I would book yourself into an intensive driving course with test as soon after as possible as soon as you can.

Your husband should be getting a better package to make this arrangement in Gulf(?) work. Everyone, even labourers, usually gets accommodation provided or paid for - which can be expensive otherwise. Also rental contracts generally run for a year. Then schools and nurseries are expensive. He will also need a car or use taxis all the time. He may actually lose money by going to this job and have a lower standard of living, by the sounds of it.

There’s no rush. You don’t need to join him now.

What you need is individual counselling.

You seem very clued up about priorities. Learning to drive, getting a job - all these things changed my life, empowered me and made me enjoy family life and children so much more. Your ethnicity and the children’s needs are absolutely relevant.

It sounds like your husband is running away. And the financial incentives that made you agree to this are not as high as you think. For me, it would be the end of the marriage.

Op I know you keep saying that he wouldn’t want the children if you split up, but do you understand that he would be able to stop you from moving home with them? That you would potentially have to live separately from him in a country you hate forever if he decided he wanted to stay and wanted to be able to see the children occasionally? You would have no right to move home without his permission.

You may think he would never do something like that, but people change when relationships break down.

He’s mad to take this job for so little money, but you’d be doubly mad to risk your mental health and your children’s well-being to go with him.

In your circumstances I wouldn't move until he'd passed his probation. If doesn't sound a good package for the Middle East either.

Do you own your house, if so would you have to rent it out. I'd be worried about not having a base to come back too.

It sounds like you don’t want to move but you wanted him to move away from you (and pay for the debt you’ve both built up). Particularly as the salary isn’t that enticing or offering much of a lifestyle improvement. You call him an asshole (which he may be.. clearly he’s not loving being a dad?) and also say he’s had to do a lot whilst you have PND - which is it?

As well as all the very good advice above has no-one mentioned that moving to ME in July is madness? This is the time when most expats come home for 2-3 months to escape the summer heat. I know things are a bit different at the moment but you might find the normal expat community is not there which will make it even harder.

@DifficultBloodyWoman

As one of the few posters who has actually lived in the Gulf, I think you should go for it.

• your marriage is not great at the moment. Being apart will not improve it. Especially in the gulf. In my experience, at least 70% of men who left their families at home will cheat on them.
• you can come back pretty easily if you decide to do so - you’ve said he wouldn’t want to be the primary parent so he is unlikely to invoke sharia law about children staying with the father. Also, it sounds like your kids are too young for that to apply anyway. Home is just a plane ride away.
• Middle Eastern schools are just Ike the U.K. - some good, some bad. But even the bad ones have smaller class numbers compared to the U.K. and that is a massive benefit to kids in the early years.
• you and the children will be exposed to new and different culture, you may find you like it, even if you don’t, you will learn from it.

I think, if you don’t go, you are essentially calling time on your marriage now. If you do go, you may find your marriage improves as it is the two of you working together, united, in a new country and culture. Or it may be too much and you still spilt up further down the line. But at least going gives you a chance.

Plenty of people on here have lived in that region and are still saying no. Even if they are rock solid I would be advising no - it sounds like they can't afford it. Taking the costs of moving and the OP giving up her career opportunities when they're already in debt and the offer sounds poor, is a bad move. Add to that that the marriage isn't solid, the OP doesn't actively want to go and it's a really, really bad move. The only exception would be if the OP has an in demand career in the country that's being proposed as she may well be able to get established herself. As it's not Dubai, that's fairly unlikely (but you never know).

Education in the Middle East can be great (not sure about Saudi though) but it's not cheap. For two children you're talking £10k a year on education absolute minimum and that school is not going to be great.

As I said, 10+ years in various countries in the GCC. We have a fantastic life here and are here long term if the world lets us. What the OP is proposing is a bad move. For a start, a month in a hotel room in the summer with two pre-schoolers would test the strongest relationship.

I wouldn't move in this situation if you paid me a million £.

You would be mad to move. It would be a great risk to get stuck in a country you hate, because as people have said already, he could prevent you from leaving with the kids.
Having no independence, friends, real purpose there, no respect from the locals, not even a good salary, rocky marriage, kid with special needs and no support. All of this just screams a big NO.