Should DH move abroad for job alone or should we join him? Dilemma.

[insertrandomusernamehere]

DH has been offered a job abroad in a Middle Eastern country to start in a few weeks and he’s accepted. As happy as I am for him; I’m absolutely terrified of what life is going to be like alone, raising our very young DC (18m and almost 3 year old). Both DC are at nursery PT and will be doing longer hours from September when I’d planned to return to work. This job offer has completely thrown me. It means changing our lives entirely- the children having to settle at a new nursery and adjust to a new way of life is panicking me the most. Or, maybe I’m projecting and am worrying about how I’ll cope in an environment/culture that is materialistic/superficial/misogynistic?

My plans for September also included taking driving lessons and becoming a bit more independent with a car for my sake and the DC. Husband is desperate for us to move but I’m not sure what to do. Should I throw caution to the wind, move us all out with him (pack our lives into boxes by the 2nd of July) and see how life works out for us all? Or, should I wait it out and let my husband settle there first, pass probation and get the ‘lay of the land’ before we join him? Or, should I stay put with the DC and we can take turns visiting one another every half term/end of term? The latter would mean less disruption for DC (my absolute priority) since they’ll still have their nursery space and key workers and other children they’re familiar with and would also mean I can focus on myself a bit too- I’m itching to get back to work. I’m scared I won’t cope alone but I won’t know until I try it, will I?

One of my biggest worries is that I’ve had horrendous PND since the birth of my older DC and I’ve needed my husband’s support to get things done and look after the children when I’ve not had the energy to get out of bed. I’m scared, left to my own devices, I might crumble. Massively. Having said that, he’ll be working silly hours in his new job so it’s not as if he’ll be able to help me out there BUT nannies/house help is cheap I’m the ME so I’d be able to buy in help? But, then I’ll worry they’re out of the British system/way of doing things and how that will negatively impact them when we come back? Argh, as you can tell, I’m struggling with all this massively. Can someone shed any light on living abroad with young children? Or even guide me on what I should do next? I’m so, so lost right now.

Apologies for the garbled post. I’ve been trying to sleep for ages but sleep just isn’t coming right now because of my anxiety around this impending move.

Definitely go and treat it as a family adventure. As others have said, you can all always move back as a family if it's clear to you all it isn't a viable option.

Yeah, OP should forego any post-natal & MH support, forget about learning to drive & axe her career for a non-package deal in a country she doesn;t want to live in. Because it's all just a big adventure (all of the admin & stress of which will fall to her), & she can always move back as a family if it's clear to you all it isn't a viable option

Suppose she wants that option but DH isn't ready to return?
@Polkadots2021you are making a blithe assumption that OP will have access to the money it would cost to return. She won't have an income, there may not be as much extra funds available as DH is imagining & DH may not want her to leave.

Plus - what Clymeme says.
Neither the marriage nor the job opportunity are strong enough to outweight the loss of independence, agency, & OP's personal UK goals.

What support will you have if he goes and you struggle to dress and feed yourself some days? Not being obtuse, I have PND too and hubby does a lot for me and LO so genuinely curious. Will focusing on your career whilst you’re still struggling not just put added pressure on?

Will focusing on your career whilst you’re still struggling not just put added pressure on?

I would imagine much less pressure than still having debt, lacking personal agency, being skint, abandoning her career, being unable to afford driving lessons, losing access to UK MH support, or being stuck in a country whose weather & politics she dislikes.

As DH has outright told OP that he finds family life "too stressful", he's not much support no matter which country she or he is living in.

Independence & resilience are what the OP needs, not to be a trailing spouse in a misogynistic culture & a currently shit marriage (OP's description, not mine).

@MaBroon21

In most (all?) countries in the ME OP can get on a plane to the UK with her kids and there is very little that the DH can do about it

Not true. It’s becoming increasingly more difficult in any of the countries signed up to the haugue convention to get through immigration control without two parents being present or one of the parents having a letter stating the patent can travel with the children.

I really do wish people wouldn’t post without actually knowing the ins and outs of situations.

Leaving a Hague Convention country, yes. I've been stopped myself.

Here we're talking about entering a Hague Convention country (UK) from a non Hague Convention Country in the Middle East. Are you seriously suggesting the UK will deny entry to a British mother and two British children without permission from the father? The Hague Convention wouldn't even apply to the children in this situation because the children would not have been habitually resident in a Contracting State. As you know so much about this, what part of English law would immigration be relying on to deny entry to a British national in this situation?

Please don't suggest I don't know what I'm talking about. For various reasons I have had legal advice on this recently.

If the ME countries had signed up to the Hague Convention I'd agree with you. They haven't.

@Indigopearl

My DH was offered an amazing package in a European country. He wanted me to quit my job and move with the family, taking my son out of his special school. I refused and stayed at home as I wanted to see how he got on with the job first.

Five months in he was let go during his probation period and came home. I am so glad I didn't give up my job for him or take my son out of his school as we had fought for years to get the right place for him.

In your situation I would definitely stay at home. If you are worried how you would cope alone would an au pair be an option to give you some support and company?

Wow thank for you didn't go!!

I don't think some people who tell OP to go have ever lived in another country. It's hard. No support network, no friends, not even a familiar face to have a cup of coffe with. No idea how things work - from sorting out doctors and dentist to figuring out how to call a taxi or buy bus tickets, not to mention dealing with administration and service providers. Who will do that? The husband only wants to be a disney dad and do fun stuff. So OP will, without speaking local language, with 2 small kids in tow and being of ethnicity that's looked down on. You can't underestimate how hard this is. I've (happily) lived in a number of countries, but it's still hard.

Not sure this has been mentioned but have you factored in that where he is going is likely on red list so can only visit home via 10 days in a hotel? That’s going to eat in awfully into annual leave.

Also @G5000
Is bang on. I’ve been an expat and it was hard work. That was before kids just going by myself.

Hague convention countries

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille_Convention

There’s is also the fact that though countries may not have signed they do indeed work along the lines of the convention.

Normaigai if the OP and DC are resident in the foreign country for more than a year, then OP tries to leave, I am pretty sure her husband could stop her. Doesn't matter that they're from the UK.

MaBoon, that's not the Hague convention people are talking about.
You want this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Convention_on_the_Civil_Aspects_of_International_Child_Abduction

I'm glad you have made the decision to stay until he has done his probation and then review. Apart from the fact the majority of the ME countries are on the UK red list, it is so very hot here. I've been here 19 years and this is the hottest its been in all that time. We have already hit the 50 degrees centigrade. It is just not pleasant and we can't even escape to the UK as we are a Red country. His first month will be a whirlwind of paperwork and getting to know colleagues so even if you came out you wouldn't see much of him.

OP,
Good call to stay put.

You are your children's primary carer and their stability.

Staying put is in your children's best interests.

Would you look at an au pair living with you to give you that extra support of a pair of hands to help?

I certainly wouldn't live in the ME under ANY circumstances and my husband turned down at least 6 positions there over the past 20 years which would have given him a tax free salary with a 6 figure uplift and every single expense paid for.

Not worth it IMO.

My niece taught out there for two years in Dubai and came back with a big down payment on a house, she said she earned every penny of it.

@ChargingBuck

I've got a really bad feeling about what he's doing here.

me too @Graphista

If she takes the DC, once OP's feet hit the ME soil, even if it's 'just' for this month in a hotel (why?!!) she is utterly dependent on DH's goodwill. She would be totally exposed & vulnerable.

And me 🥴 I reckon he wants the oP there for sheer convenience, a housekeeper/childminder/lover etc, rather than having to sort it out for himself or pay for costs back home.

I think there's a very very good chance that if the DH goes and tastes the single expat lifestyle, he won't be coming back.

@KeflavikAirport

I think there's a very very good chance that if the DH goes and tastes the single expat lifestyle, he won't be coming back.

Good point.

And all the more reason not to chuck away all OP's UK ambitions, & waste even more money she doesn't have in flying herself & her DC in & out of the ME on somebody else's whim.

I lived in Saudi till I was 7. It was an idyllic life. Compound with pool, tennis courts etc, Lots of families in the same boat. Ready made social life for my parents. Private British school as part of the package. My mum loved it.
When we were older they lived in dubai and my sister lived with them. She hated that. You had to be really rich to enjoy the expat lifestyle their. They didn’t live on a compound so it was harder to make friends. So it depends on where you are going, what kind of package it is, and whether you find it easy making new friends.
I would never let my husband live in a different country from us. It’s a recipe for disaster. All the blokes that worked in the Middle East and were not with their families were cheating on their partners. That is just standard.
Either go together or don’t let him go at all.

@Carycy

I lived in Saudi till I was 7. It was an idyllic life. Compound with pool, tennis courts etc, Lots of families in the same boat. Ready made social life for my parents. Private British school as part of the package. My mum loved it. When we were older they lived in dubai and my sister lived with them. She hated that. You had to be really rich to enjoy the expat lifestyle their. They didn’t live on a compound so it was harder to make friends. So it depends on where you are going, what kind of package it is, and whether you find it easy making new friends. I would never let my husband live in a different country from us. It’s a recipe for disaster. All the blokes that worked in the Middle East and were not with their families were cheating on their partners. That is just standard. Either go together or don’t let him go at all.

Judging by the OP’s description of her husband (wanting to be the star without doing any of the work) it might just hasten the inevitable anyway

I'm so glad you're staying put (at least for now) OP. I actually felt quite worried for you, which is ridiculous for a stranger on the Internet, but it had mistake written all over it.

I would just go. If you hate it you can come back. If the kids were school age then my response would be different but I’m sure you can get in with the ex-pat community and it could be a real experience for you.

Sorry, missed the update. My comment still stands.

I'm glad you've decided to let him try it out first before moving.

All I wanted to add was dont console yourself that he wouldn't want custody of the kids if you split up. I'm sure you are right, but he will want you and the children to stay in the ME. Even if you go out for a long holiday, he could still claim you moved there to be with him and stop you ever leaving.

Don't risk it.

My advice move. Your can hire nanny for childcare. Your children can attend the international schools when they are older which will give them a better education than they get here. They will b brought up with friends from many cultures and learn all about those cultures
You could also look for work over there and still learn to drive etc

@Graphista

"You can always come back"

Can you? WITH your children? There are countries in the Middle East where this could be very difficult if the relationship were to break down

That only applies if one of the parents is a national of that country. If the op doesn't like it she can return home without issue

@HalzTangz

My advice move. Your can hire nanny for childcare. Your children can attend the international schools when they are older which will give them a better education than they get here. They will b brought up with friends from many cultures and learn all about those cultures You could also look for work over there and still learn to drive etc

On a limited budget? None of those extras have been factored into his salary.

Me education isn't terrible, my DP and his brother were educated in the middle Eastern international schools followed by university.both got A's for every subject and Firsts for their degrees. Both walked in to high earning roles for their first jobs. Both can fluently speak 4 languages also.

If they stayed in birmingham where they are from, they would not have gotten that great education.

I travel to the ME each year with my partner and have never experienced anything other than kindness from locals in the areas we visit.