Should DH move abroad for job alone or should we join him? Dilemma.

[insertrandomusernamehere]

DH has been offered a job abroad in a Middle Eastern country to start in a few weeks and he’s accepted. As happy as I am for him; I’m absolutely terrified of what life is going to be like alone, raising our very young DC (18m and almost 3 year old). Both DC are at nursery PT and will be doing longer hours from September when I’d planned to return to work. This job offer has completely thrown me. It means changing our lives entirely- the children having to settle at a new nursery and adjust to a new way of life is panicking me the most. Or, maybe I’m projecting and am worrying about how I’ll cope in an environment/culture that is materialistic/superficial/misogynistic?

My plans for September also included taking driving lessons and becoming a bit more independent with a car for my sake and the DC. Husband is desperate for us to move but I’m not sure what to do. Should I throw caution to the wind, move us all out with him (pack our lives into boxes by the 2nd of July) and see how life works out for us all? Or, should I wait it out and let my husband settle there first, pass probation and get the ‘lay of the land’ before we join him? Or, should I stay put with the DC and we can take turns visiting one another every half term/end of term? The latter would mean less disruption for DC (my absolute priority) since they’ll still have their nursery space and key workers and other children they’re familiar with and would also mean I can focus on myself a bit too- I’m itching to get back to work. I’m scared I won’t cope alone but I won’t know until I try it, will I?

One of my biggest worries is that I’ve had horrendous PND since the birth of my older DC and I’ve needed my husband’s support to get things done and look after the children when I’ve not had the energy to get out of bed. I’m scared, left to my own devices, I might crumble. Massively. Having said that, he’ll be working silly hours in his new job so it’s not as if he’ll be able to help me out there BUT nannies/house help is cheap I’m the ME so I’d be able to buy in help? But, then I’ll worry they’re out of the British system/way of doing things and how that will negatively impact them when we come back? Argh, as you can tell, I’m struggling with all this massively. Can someone shed any light on living abroad with young children? Or even guide me on what I should do next? I’m so, so lost right now.

Apologies for the garbled post. I’ve been trying to sleep for ages but sleep just isn’t coming right now because of my anxiety around this impending move.

i'd be checking out of this so called marriage, doesn't do ft parenting, likes doing his own thing ? marriage is shit atm ?
no way would i move to a country that has racist views against my family and me.

OP, One other issue in case you have not considered it yet. Have you and husband checked the contract of employment and the local laws on working visa if he was to fail probation or be dismissed at any point.

Because a lot of countries have very little protections for workers and often even worse for non-citizens. It would be much easier if he is on his own to come back quickly, far more traumatic if you and the children are there too.

My friend and her family had to leave an Asian country after 3 years (with 2 kids under 3.5yrs) in less than 6 weeks as she got dismissed and lost her visa which was tied to the job. She'd done nothing wrong, just fell out with the MD of the company over an issue and he threw his toys out of pram. She always knew it might happen so was prepared, as it had already happened to two other colleagues.

Just something to also bear in mind.

If you are already struggling with everyday life, adding in all the stress and complexities of the Middle East is likely to stress you further.
It sounds like you are comfortable to look forward to September when you will go back to work and start driving lessons, both these things will strengthen your self confidence and you might find that without your husband around a lot of your depression symptoms disappear.
Let him go separately if you can afford two households. When he gets back you can date each other and decide again if you want to make it as a couple.

Can you afford to stay here and him go, if the pay increase is only £2k?

It doesn’t really sound like you’re making a decision on wether to go or not here… he’s going, with your encouragement; and you’re not.

Are you really pondering whether this ends your marriage?

I wouldn't go in your situation and I'm usually one to throw caution to the wind and move wherever.

OP, having read your last updates, there is no way in hell that you should go and I think you know that but are understandably trying to do what you can to keep your marriage together.

Compromise in marriage is a fact of life. But in this case it's too much. Put your children first - for all the reasons you mention (racist/materialist country, change of childcare, general disruption) this is not going to be a good move for them. Stay put and he can send money home. Do not sacrifice everything that you and your children need and want in order to support his short-term financial prospects. You can absolutely find local support as you adapt to a single parent lifestyle.

Oh I forgot that the laws of the Middle East and the UK are the same confused

Its not about the laws of the UK...

@MaBroon21

I used to live in the UAE, and I immediately knew what the OP meant

Yes. So did I. It’s something I’ve read in novels and heard on the TV in the likes of The Jewel in the Crown, Downtown Abbey, The Forsyth Saga and Poroit.

Never once though have I heard it said in this part of the world in the 4 plus decades I’ve lived here.

I'm not sure I've heard anyone say the exact phrase aloud in either of the emirates I lived in, but the sentiment was immediately recognisable from my time in the UAE.

I could guess at the OP's likely ethnic background because of the entrenched ethnic hierarchy that certainly pertained in the working world in the UAE when I lived and worked there, and what ethnicity people considered the 'service class' would be most likely to be. It may have changed.

@youllregretit

Oh I forgot that the laws of the Middle East and the UK are the same confused

Its not about the laws of the UK...

I wasn't the one that said it was!

@MareofBeasttown just because you don’t know anyone who has been unable to leave a country with their children after a marriage breakdown doesn’t mean it never happens. A family friend had to return from the ME to her home country alone when her ex became violent. She didn’t see her child for several years

Yup. I have a friend whose husband is from the Middle East. She has a good friend who moved to live there with her DH and her marriage has collapsed and she is trapped living with him and the MIL who hates her and treats her like shit, but she can't leave unless she abandons her children.

My own life experience says NEVER give up financial independence and NEVER give it up for a man who wants you to. No decent man would want you to give up your life for theirs. NO decent man would want this.

I live in the Middle East. I wouldn't recommend anyone to come here without a full package including housing and schooling. International schools are very expensive. Also, if your marriage isn't strong now. A move internationally may not help matters there either.

@lilyofthewasteland

You would be mad to go.

If he were even a halfway decent husband and father he wouldn't be asking or putting you in this position by going. I say that having read the context you've provided.

He wouldn't prevent me leaving the country with the children. He knows children need stability (which both of us didn't have growing up) and it's better us separated and happy vs together and miserable.

You do realise every mother who has been prevented from leaving a foreign country with her children once adamantly believed the man would never do that to her? None of them moved thinking it would happen to her.

You're being naive on that point.

THis. Absolutely this.

And no woman marries a man who they think will shaft them in a divorce.

No women gives up a job for a man who she thinks will shaft her when the kids are older and he wants to move on.
All those women were with men who they absolutely believed were good and decent and would treat them fairly.

@Spandrel in fact ‘Western’ (for want of a better word) are the odd ones out with their perspective on diversity and equality (could be because of colonial backgrounds).
For many other countries not only is it not on the agenda but there are complex social ranks within the country’s own people, let alone foreigners. Prejudice, judgement etc are all considered very acceptable as it’s ‘protecting oneself’ - they don’t even bother hiding it.

I wouldn't. I went to work in the ME about eight years ago as a consultant and I HATED it: my other half stayed at home, and it's not a great place as a single woman.

The only social life I had of any kind was the ex-pat scene, which I found shallow and vacuous - I'm a very outdoors-y, sporty person, and the whole thing was deeply tedious.

I did make a LOT of money (my accommodation, living expenses, driver etc was paid for by the company I was consulting for, so basically all I needed was pocket money), which was nice, but I absolutely wouldn't do it again (I believe the tax laws for non-doms have changed recently, which means it isn't quite the glorious tax-free experience that it used to be, either).

I'm sure there are parts which are lovely, but I really wouldn't recommend it. I found it incredibly stifling and restrictive and I was working - I can't imagine what it would be like as a SAHM.

There is so much good advice here and I think you know that the sensible answer is NOT to go.

Perhaps for the hotel period for a week or so, but 4 people in a hotel room? Ok out there it could be a suite so you might have room for you and another for kids, but if it’s booked by corporate… I doubt it.

I’d check on that first and foremost

I would recommend you don’t go at all. I think that there is MORE chance you’re going to split up if you DO go than if you don’t.

I also wonder if your PND was caused by his attitude to parenting.

I wonder if, with him out of the picture, you will fall into a routine that works for you and the dc and you will thrive (as will they)

The added details of your little one and potential high needs etc? The ethnic issue in a ME country… it’s all icing on the Hell No Cake.

My advice to you would be to say that you will/will not come out for hotel stay - totally up to you, it will be exhausting. But it’s neither here nor there in the greater scheme of things.

As regards to moving, I’d say to him that he needs to go ahead of you, that he needs to pass probation and know he wants to stay, then he can suss out the lay of the land regarding accommodation and nursery and then (and only then) will you be in a realistic place to make a rational decision

My guess is that by staying home, you’ll gain in strength and if you carry on with the counselling you just might be able to fix things a bit better and who knows your marriage may survive

I think given the huge pressure on trailing spouses at the best of times, all the little details you’ve shared with us on top of the marriage issues, you should tell h that this way of doing things would give you all the best chances of survival as a family. He needs to focus on getting himself settled and YOU need to focus on getting yourself to a happier place and at this point neither of you would have the bandwidth to achieve this and help each other

Not going is not you calling it a day, it’s not you leaving him, it’s both of you allowing each other the space to focus on very important changes and to keep talking on WhatsApp etc will keep you connected

I think this space could actually help save the family

I truly wish you and your family all the best, this is a good chance for good things to happen

@mmgirish

I live in the Middle East. I wouldn't recommend anyone to come here without a full package including housing and schooling. International schools are very expensive. Also, if your marriage isn't strong now. A move internationally may not help matters there either.

Completely agree with this. We lived in the gulf for a few years. It was a fab place for young kids and social life but it is very expensive. You need a lot of money to live well. If you're itching to get back to work you'll also probably be disappointed, particularly if you're on a trailing spouse visa. Also Covid has really dented the good stuff about the lifestyle where we were. Schools and pre schools closed at the drop of a hat with no rush to open but still charging full fees. Brunches (the highlight of many an expat's weekend) all cancelled and possibly never to return in the format they were. Prices rising crazily for groceries and utilities. This won't be the case everywhere in the ME but just check everything really carefully.

Jeez I didn't say it never happens but I find it a bit odd that on MN the first reaction to expat life is always " Your husband will take the kids" when most of the expat husbands I have seen can't even manage the kids for an hour Anyway as I have already said I dont think she should go as the money is shit, her marriage is crumbling, she has PND and might find it hard to get work.

[quote LateAtTate]@Spandrel in fact ‘Western’ (for want of a better word) are the odd ones out with their perspective on diversity and equality (could be because of colonial backgrounds).
For many other countries not only is it not on the agenda but there are complex social ranks within the country’s own people, let alone foreigners. Prejudice, judgement etc are all considered very acceptable as it’s ‘protecting oneself’ - they don’t even bother hiding it.[/quote]
For the poster who said visas are tied to employment and you can be deported if you lose your job, this is the case in every country in the world including the UK. If my DH loses his job tomorrow I will have to leave the country in 2 months ( not British). If you consider this you can never leave your country of origin.

Sorry quoted the wrong person. I was going to roll my eyes at the idea of colonialism helping diversity in the UK. Yeah no thanks.

I think you should spend some time routing around the boards and read up on women trapped abroad when their husband’s prevent them from returning with their children. All those well-meaning, maybe even lovely men who turned into jailers for their ex wives and kids www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk/blog/2011/04/11/the-expats-tale-im-a-stuck-mum/

Some ME stories. www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1034581/How-son-fled-strict-billionaire-Arab-father-come-live-Surrey.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Mahmoody

• rooting around even 🙄 I knew that looked wrong.

Even mothers trying to leave with their children, after relationship breakdowns, from “western” countries such as Australia will find that they can’t if the father objects.

[quote Mummyoflittledragon]I think you should spend some time routing around the boards and read up on women trapped abroad when their husband’s prevent them from returning with their children. All those well-meaning, maybe even lovely men who turned into jailers for their ex wives and kids www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk/blog/2011/04/11/the-expats-tale-im-a-stuck-mum/

Some ME stories. www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1034581/How-son-fled-strict-billionaire-Arab-father-come-live-Surrey.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Mahmoody[/quote]
Both of the ME stories are where the father is Muslim. Both are also old - could you not find an example from the last decade at least? Betty Mahmoody's story happened 30 years ago and from Iran which is not a country being discussed here. The other ME story involved a Dubai national and the mother signed over parental responsibility in around 2000. They are sad stories but not in any way relevant to the OP and hardly current.

The first story is a Hague Convention country and so not relevant to the OP.

It does happen but unless the father is Muslim it isn't something the OP needs to worry about. Being financially trapped is the real risk here.

Normally in ME countries British people get accomodation. Your DH is not. Take the advice of posters saying that you will need his permission to take the children with you abroad. There have been a few threads over the years were the woman needed her husband's consent to tka the children abroad, even in European countries! He is desperate for you to move with him so he can have you do free childcare with his children there and not have to pay your rent/mortgage. If your marriage is on the rocks you will have no friendships there and it will get worse. He will not let you and the children return to the UK!