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Original poster

Do you think lesbian is defined by sex or gender?

366 replies

neroforte · 16/06/2021 15:13

So, if someone was of male sex, but identified as a woman, and they dated a woman, would it be a lesbian or straight relationship? Would the bio woman still be considered a lesbian for dating the woman indentified male?

OP posts:
Ijustreallywantacat · 16/06/2021 17:47

So if a person with a penis puts on a dress and says "I'm a woman" and then asks a lesbian out and they say no, the woman can be called transphobic? Why doesn't the person with a penis just ask people who like penis out?

If the lesbian said "No, you delusional (transgender slur)" then yes that's transphobic.
If they said, "No, ta" then no it isn't.

People reject people for all kinds of reasons. As is your right. Nobody has to go out or have sex with anybody.
Pointing out that its because they are fat, have a big nose, short, disabled, black, trans or any other physical characteristic that defines them is rude or worse.

Shamoo · 16/06/2021 17:47

Sorry, transitioned from female to male!

PurpleyBlue · 16/06/2021 17:48

@Shamoo

Sorry, transitioned from female to male!
Ahh that makes sense!
PurpleyBlue · 16/06/2021 17:49

Thanks Ijustreallywantacat

Binglebong · 16/06/2021 17:49

@PurpleyBlue

So if a person with a penis puts on a dress and says "I'm a woman" and then asks a lesbian out and they say no, the woman can be called transphobic? Why doesn't the person with a penis just ask people who like penis out?
Yes. Welcome to the club.
PurpleyBlue · 16/06/2021 17:50

I'm beginning to think we should just identify people as vagina-haver and penis-haver.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 16/06/2021 17:51

@Ijustreallywantacat

So if a person with a penis puts on a dress and says "I'm a woman" and then asks a lesbian out and they say no, the woman can be called transphobic? Why doesn't the person with a penis just ask people who like penis out?

If the lesbian said "No, you delusional (transgender slur)" then yes that's transphobic.
If they said, "No, ta" then no it isn't.

People reject people for all kinds of reasons. As is your right. Nobody has to go out or have sex with anybody.
Pointing out that its because they are fat, have a big nose, short, disabled, black, trans or any other physical characteristic that defines them is rude or worse.

Having a penis is a physical characteristic. So they're not allowed to say that? Hmm
Marguerite2000 · 16/06/2021 17:55

Lesbians are female homosexuals, ie attracted only to people of their own sex, other females. A transwoman is still male as it is impossible to change sex.
Sexual orientation is a real thing, hence it being a protected characteristic.

Ijustreallywantacat · 16/06/2021 17:56

Having a penis is a physical characteristic. So they're not allowed to say that?

Can you not see that saying "No thanks you have a dick" is rude? Let's leave transphobic out of it. Can you not see that it's just rude?! Think it all you want, for sure.

What's wrong with just saying "No"?

LittleDidSheKnow · 16/06/2021 17:56

@PurpleyBlue

I'm beginning to think we should just identify people as vagina-haver and penis-haver.
There used to be unambiguous words for those Hmm
Marguerite2000 · 16/06/2021 17:57

@PurpleyBlue

I'm beginning to think we should just identify people as vagina-haver and penis-haver.
There's really no need. The words man and woman have worked perfectly well across centuries and cultures.
PurpleyBlue · 16/06/2021 17:57

LittleDidSheKnow I thought so but I feel like I will just offend someone if I use them now.

Ijustreallywantacat · 16/06/2021 17:57

I've asked out straight women plenty in my time. They all managed to reject me without mentioning my genitals, and we all went away happy

PurpleyBlue · 16/06/2021 17:58

Marguerite2000 I don't think I can use "woman with a penis" though? It would upset someone one way or the other.

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2021 17:58

@Ijustreallywantacat

Im not sure it's my business to define anyone else's sexuality. I have done the deed with a transwoman and as far as I'm concerned, I had sex with a woman. There are many lesbians our there who have sex and relationships with transwomen, and they are lesbians because they say they are. You could try to argue with them, or me and tell me you disagree, but it actually doesn't matter because it's none of your business, and people are allowed to define their own relationships.
It does matter if it removes lesbians single sex homosexual protection in law.

It is not 'arrogant' to seek to protect homosexual females.

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2021 17:59

@Ijustreallywantacat

Having a penis is a physical characteristic. So they're not allowed to say that?

Can you not see that saying "No thanks you have a dick" is rude? Let's leave transphobic out of it. Can you not see that it's just rude?! Think it all you want, for sure.

What's wrong with just saying "No"?

Isn't it rude for males to ask out lesbians in the first place?
junipertree2 · 16/06/2021 18:00

'Non binary' is a nonsensical label imo. Just tell him he is dating a gender non-conforming girl (don't blame her either). The thing that worries me about this 'non binary' identification is that enbies abjure the very words girl and boy, male and female, as if they're toxic and offensive terms. All these kids are really rejecting is the tedious cultural baggage embodied in notions of gender.

Shamoo · 16/06/2021 18:00

@Marguerite2000 so a woman who has only ever had sex with people with vaginas, who continues to have sex with her wife who has a vagina, is not a lesbian because the wife was born male but fully transitioned before they got together? What is her sexual orientation then, is she now straight despite only ever having had sex with people with vaginas?

ArabellaScott · 16/06/2021 18:01

A lesbian is a very specific term. It's a woman who is attracted to women.

No male can be a lesbian. I say this not for my usual pedantry, either, but because a male just will not face the same conjunction of issues that lesbians do - marginalised because of their sex AND their sexuality.

ArabellaScott · 16/06/2021 18:02

Conjuction is the wrong word ... what is the right one ... I can't find it, sorry.

DrSbaitso · 16/06/2021 18:03

@PurpleyBlue

I'm beginning to think we should just identify people as vagina-haver and penis-haver.
They sound clunky. If only someone could come up with something a bit punchier...
junipertree2 · 16/06/2021 18:05

@Deathgrip

I'm not sure if I would consider a straight woman to have 'turned' into a lesbian if their DH came out as trans though.

What do you mean, you aren’t sure? Of course your own sexuality can’t be changed by another person’s actions. This is the problem with the situation we find ourselves in now. When TWAW is followed to its logical conclusion, it makes no sense.

Sexuality and gender identity are entirely separate issues - them being conflated within organisations that used to campaign for gay rights is part of the problem.

Sexuality is sex based. Gender identity is not a factor.

Has anyone noticed that the vocal transwomen who criticise lesbians for being averse to male genitalia are very insistent that they must have sex with lesbians? Not women, lesbians. Only lesbians will do, because it’s only about validation of their existence as a woman and nothing else. Why wouldn’t they date a heterosexual or bisexual woman who is happy to date a biologically male person who has transitioned to a female gender identity? The answer to that question is very telling.

@Deathgrip Why wouldn’t they date a heterosexual or bisexual woman who is happy to date a biologically male person who has transitioned to a female gender identity? The answer to that question is very telling.

Indeed, or why don't they date another biologically male 'lesbian'? They are both women and women can have penises, so why not? Surely refusal is genital fetishism?

CardinalLolzy · 16/06/2021 18:06

@ArabellaScott

Conjuction is the wrong word ... what is the right one ... I can't find it, sorry.
Intersection Smile
Justcurio · 16/06/2021 18:07

I'm also interested in whether two trans women would have a lesbian relationship. Or does the trans woman's lesbian partner need to have been 'assigned' female at birth.
The new use of words has become quite a puzzle.

PurpleyBlue · 16/06/2021 18:07

junipertree2 that's what I'm not getting. It would make more sense to me to date someone who liked penises if I had one.