Do you think people really like diversity?

[TheYearOfSmallThings]

I live in a diverse part of East London, which likes to congratulate itself on its diversity. And in fairness, everyone generally gets along quite nicely.

But as I listened to a posse of white middle class mums in their 30s with carefully curated trainers and vaguely creative jobs waxing enthusiastic about all the diversity, it struck me that most people here, given the choice, spend their time with people exactly like themselves. It's not just the middle class bum sniffing either, the other communities are just the same. It's as if we enjoy pretending to embrace diversity, when we might as well just have stayed in the village we grew up in, except there were no jobs.

Maybe it's just the area I live in, which has been partially gentrified and is in a state of flux. Maybe people feel a bit insecure and flock together for reassurance?

Does anyone live in a place where people genuinely demonstrate enthusiasm for integrating their lives with those of people who are different from them?

I’m mixed race. I’d say that certain races (unless they’re children or in their early 20s) tend to stick together and not mix. It doesn’t help that some schools only cater for a certain demographic. This doesn’t help children to embrace diversity and learn/integrate with other cultures. Once the “us vs them” mentality ends, we will not have a welcoming diverse culture in the UK.

I am so thankful that I am mixed race and I’m from two tolerant families that do not have the “us vs them” mentality and doesn’t fear diversity.

It doesn’t help that some schools only cater for a certain demographic.

I have 3 schools within 5 minutes walk, all "good". One is noticeably whiter, one is noticeably blacker and one is very mixed but with noticeably more muslim and Asian kids. This is not down to catchment or distance, as we all criss-cross in the morning. It is down to parent choice, and has become increasingly obvious over the past 10 years. I don't know how the schools feel about it, or what they could do to change it. I suppose it perpetuates itself too, because you are unlikely to send your child to a school where they will be an outsider if you have a choice.

Actually I do think the schools themselves make a good effort to integrate their pupils. But it only goes so far these days where children's friendships are so dependent on adult facilitation (there is no playing out here).

But it only goes so far these days where children's friendships are so dependent on adult facilitation (there is no playing out here).

Exactly. Parents are supposed to be good role models. If they encourage their DC to make friends with whoever they want, their DC are more likely to become a tolerant, non-judgemental adult.

As an Asian, I get on with every other race and religion. I enjoy banter with anyone who is funny and get into meaningful conversations with lots of people.
Where I live, we are seen as very diverse. But I have seen lots of people wary or mistrusting of other races which I find is sad.
I personally find chats with people from all walks of life very interesting and love chatting to people same/ similar as me as well as different.
1 thing though I have realised about my own self is that I am not as socially confident after 9/11 to make new " other" friends, I still do but with more hesitation, as i have experienced some people's attitude change with me.
I went from smiling and saying hello to everyone I met, to now just doing that with people who seem to be more open initially as I have had a few people not reciprocating or even giving me a dirty look!
Which is sad as generally while there are differences between everyone obviously, I think we all also have lots in common with other people on day to day life.

Also as an aside, I like my children to enjoy a diverse set of friends because I want them to understand and respect different cultures and religions.
I am forever encouraging them to play with different type of like minded people.

When I say like minded, I mean respectful, obedient type kids. Kids are meant to play and be crazy etc but I can't abide disrespectful children who swear and do not know how to play along with other kids etc, and are forever bullying the others while their mums just watch and do not intervene.
Im off on another rant now

I found Leicester really positively diverse. Diverse social groups and everyone goes to Diwali every year.

I agree with the OP.

In outwardly diverse-looking populations, people often lead parallel lives.

I am NHS and my team of 20 is 65% 'diverse'. We were 8, and 100% white until 3 years ago. We often went out together, and were on each other's SM. I am the sole survivor of that 8!

I work well with my colleagues but there is no way I socialise outside work with them as we have nothing but our line of work in common. They have formed 2 cliques themselves, interestingly.

I am friendly with several Indian people, but, again, their SM is full of get-togethers with other Indians.

My estate is fairly diverse, but what binds us is the catchment of a very good school and us all being MC.

Birds of a feather.

I think people do look for commonality - for some that's a similar personal background, for others it's work or children a similar age or current area or hobbies. There is common ground alongside diversity which some like and look for, some like the image but not the reality, and some don't really like it at all.

I'm an immigrant, haven't been around people of my mixed ethnic background for years, and I tend to be the odd one out in many other ways. I've met people in all those categories - those who enjoy difference and seek out common ground with people of all backgrounds, those who see diversity as more a source of entertainment & get annoyed when I don't play along or a way to show themselves as more enlightened, and there are those who put up a wall that I am other, often somehow getting annoyed if I'm not entirely assimilated but also annoyed if I act assimilated/identify with the Brits on something.

I do find that those who wax on the most about diversity are in the second group/like the OP's talked about where it's window dressing that makes them feel good, where as those who do value it tend to get on with living their lives that way or work at it in practical ways.

@Nowineedadrink

Trendy diverse and inclusive office seems to mean as long as you are the right sort of diverse. E.g any colour as long as you are not fat, or god forbid, over 35.

Where I work is like this. They pride themselves on being diverse and inclusive but if you are an introvert or are neurodiverse or older, forget it.

Lots of organisations pay lip service to diversity, as do people, but the fact remains most of us are more comfortable with our own kind, whether that's defined by race, religion or class.

And just look at the opposing 'tribes' at football matches!

@0blio That’s so true about firms only playing lip service to diversity, or only valuing certain types of diversity.

My workplace is all about EDI initiatives, pronouns in emails etc. But there is very little diversity of thought and there are certain views I would be very wary of expressing. For example I wouldn’t admit for voting for Brexit or being vaccine hesitant (neither apply to me btw). There was also a teams chat recently that referred to ‘Palestine’ repeatedly. I was tempted to note there is also a country in that area called Israel, but that’s not the kind of diversity that’s valued.

Whether they like it or not, everyone needs to accept it and try not to make those of us who were created because of colonial experiments all over the world feel out of place/unwanted/hated on when we are living in the "mother country". After 40 years of living in the USA and then East London, I finally got fed up of feeling like a potted plant put in a room so that it was "diverse" and moved back home to the Caribbean. No regrets.

Be good to each other.

@TheYearOfSmallThings

I live in a diverse part of East London, which likes to congratulate itself on its diversity. And in fairness, everyone generally gets along quite nicely.

But as I listened to a posse of white middle class mums in their 30s with carefully curated trainers and vaguely creative jobs waxing enthusiastic about all the diversity, it struck me that most people here, given the choice, spend their time with people exactly like themselves. It's not just the middle class bum sniffing either, the other communities are just the same. It's as if we enjoy pretending to embrace diversity, when we might as well just have stayed in the village we grew up in, except there were no jobs.

Maybe it's just the area I live in, which has been partially gentrified and is in a state of flux. Maybe people feel a bit insecure and flock together for reassurance?

Does anyone live in a place where people genuinely demonstrate enthusiasm for integrating their lives with those of people who are different from them?

Diversity and multiculturism = seperate cultures by it’s very definition. It is monoculturism which encourages cultural mixing and even then only for those children indocterined in it.

@kateemo

Whether they like it or not, everyone needs to accept it and try not to make those of us who were created because of colonial experiments all over the world feel out of place/unwanted/hated on when we are living in the "mother country". After 40 years of living in the USA and then East London, I finally got fed up of feeling like a potted plant put in a room so that it was "diverse" and moved back home to the Caribbean. No regrets.

Be good to each other.

Should point out that everyone in the caribbean is a ‘potted plant and also so physically different from the countries where their ancestors came from (due to ‘breeding’ and forced marriages) that they don’t fit in there either. I have a huge section of Indo-Caribbean family feeling as if they are being erased in their home countries but who are ‘too black’ to be accepted in India. The only place where they feel at home is the UK.

Not my experience. I can only write about my experience @Ozanj. I am where I don't feel like a potted plant. There is enough "diversity" coursing through my veins.

Hmmm, I agree with you in a way OP. I suppose I'm exactly one of those people! I live in Lewisham and the school my kids go to has way more non-white than white kids (in my older son's year there aren't many white kids at all, maybe 10%?). So my kids have much more mixed friendship groups than me and my husband. I really like it, I suppose I see it as them having an upbringing infused with diversity as a natural consequence of where they live. As opposed to me and DH, who grew up in very non-diverse areas and we've only experienced living in a more mixed community as adults.

Should add, the school my kids go to also has a significant number of non-white teachers, including some men, some in leadership positions. And for me this is something I rrally value in the school, that my white sons are growing up with non-white leaders and authority figures. I think that is really important.

@TheRebelle

Class definitely trumps race, I’m friends with mostly people like me, and the friends I have who are not the same race as me are the same class, income bracket and job type but I’m not friends with anyone who’s a different class to me, which makes sense because you want to spend time with people who like the same things as you and had similar upbringings.

Does anyone else find this post / view offensive ? The poster rightly wouldn't discriminate due to race, but thinks it acceptable not to want to make friends with someone because they had a different upbringing ? The prejudice that someone wouldn't like the same things as them due to their social class ?

I live in a leafy suburb in Gloucestershire now and omg... the number of "these people" comments at work is astonishing... colour of skin, benefits claimants, country of origin, sexual preferences, gender choices, SEN meaning bad parenting. Does not matter what the differences are, some will find a way to keep out of the mix. There is very little diversity here, very little mixing of cultures unless they can be put back out of sight afterwards...

I've tried speaking out, it doesn't help, so I'm moving job. The class thing came to the fore the other day with "oh your daughter's going to Bath, very high ranking, not Russell Group of course" ... I felt put in my place.

OP "Does anyone live in a place where people genuinely demonstrate enthusiasm for integrating their lives with those of people who are different from them?"

How would you know? How would you judge from what you see?

i wish I had stayed in the second village I grew up in. I can't afford it though.

It's still probably considered non diverse due to the majority of people being white. I am not white. My parents aren't white. They live there and are very much of the place, IYSWIM. Community roles in the village etc.

I don't think people know what they mean themselves when they use the word "diversity". Is it something you judge from skin or clothing or what? Do you see my mum differently on a jeans day or a sari day?

I live in north london and my area has a large Turkish/Kurdish population. When I was in the
Primary school years I did chat in the playground to lots of parents from different backgrounds but the Turkish parents tended to stay within their own group and lots don’t speak English which makes it hard to get to know anyone.

I found the posh white parents the most hard work to be honest.

My work friends are a more diverse bunch but we don’t really live close to each other.

Trendy diverse and inclusive office seems to mean as long as you are the right sort of diverse. E.g any colour as long as you are not fat, or god forbid, over 35.

This is true & I don't think disability is as visible as it should be.

I find the whole class thing interesting as it's not something I was even aware of when younger but some people are obsessed with it particularly on MNs.

found the posh white parents the most hard work to be honest.

I've found inverse snobbery one of the most prevalent and pernicious issues. (Not accusing you of that).

Just goes to show how difficult it is to generalise. Damaging too sometimes.

One of the biggest barriers to more diverse mixing is preconceived ideas (from all sides).

@awaketoosoon

Trendy diverse and inclusive office seems to mean as long as you are the right sort of diverse. E.g any colour as long as you are not fat, or god forbid, over 35.

This is true & I don't think disability is as visible as it should be.

Yes definitely. All of this.

There is more mixing today than there was in my day in South London (1960s & 70s), but by and large, I think you are right OP. The various races live side by side but they do not integrate fully, yet.