Do you think people really like diversity?

[TheYearOfSmallThings]

I live in a diverse part of East London, which likes to congratulate itself on its diversity. And in fairness, everyone generally gets along quite nicely.

But as I listened to a posse of white middle class mums in their 30s with carefully curated trainers and vaguely creative jobs waxing enthusiastic about all the diversity, it struck me that most people here, given the choice, spend their time with people exactly like themselves. It's not just the middle class bum sniffing either, the other communities are just the same. It's as if we enjoy pretending to embrace diversity, when we might as well just have stayed in the village we grew up in, except there were no jobs.

Maybe it's just the area I live in, which has been partially gentrified and is in a state of flux. Maybe people feel a bit insecure and flock together for reassurance?

Does anyone live in a place where people genuinely demonstrate enthusiasm for integrating their lives with those of people who are different from them?

@Moonwatcher1234

In my experience it’s more of a class thing...grew up in a working class east London neighbourhood. We all got along and friendships were formed between families of different races, religions etc. To answer your question, yes, I think most of us liked living in a diverse neighbourhood. Now it’s become so gentrified and I find those incomers form bubbles of like minded middle class professional people. Which is a shame for them as they are missing out on true community in my opinion. Now live in an i gentrified area, mostly working class, where our lovely friends and neighbours share gifts on each other’s festivals and we genuinely get on. Reinforces my feeling that class is more of a factor.

This is my experience too. There are mostly white non-London raised middle class bubbles in gentrified areas who appear to be slightly aloof (like the idea of living in a diverse area but don't actually want to truly mix with the rest of the community) and then there's the rest of us (lower middle class/working class) mixing, celebrating together and looking out for each other and elderly neighbours. I don't know anyone personally from the former group irl but you can tell if they're from that gentrified bubble when they post on MN.

"Moonwatcher1234

In my experience it’s more of a class thing...grew up in a working class east London neighbourhood. We all got along and friendships were formed between families of different races, religions etc. To answer your question, yes, I think most of us liked living in a diverse neighbourhood. Now it’s become so gentrified and I find those incomers form bubbles of like minded middle class professional people. Which is a shame for them as they are missing out on true community in my opinion. Now live in an i gentrified area, mostly working class, where our lovely friends and neighbours share gifts on each other’s festivals and we genuinely get on. Reinforces my feeling that class is more of a factor"

Exactly this!

There is a difference between accepting that your local area has a diverse population, being polite and courteous, trying to remember and respect for customs or faiths other than your own, and positively seeking this out in friendships.

I think a lot of people like diversity when it means an authentic deli or a good value tradesperson. They like to pat themselves on the back for their open mindedness.

I grew up in London & had a very diverse childhood. I didn't know anyone who wasn't a 1st or 2nd gen immigrant until I went to uni & even now the people I'm closest too fit that mould.

However the part of London I live in has changed dramatically & is far less diverse.

“ I noticed that every white person employed white builders etc and every Asian person employed brown builders. ”

Well you’d be proud of us because we are white and have employed an Asian builder. To be fair all his subcontractors seem to also be Asian (Sikh to be specific) and he did comment on animosity between Sikhs and Muslims (and as it happens all 3 of our neighbours on one side - flats - are Muslim).

I’ll be honest I do have mainly white friends. My Asian friends do tend to be from a similar social group / professional jobs. My children have friends from all backgrounds. Where I work (London) is very ethnically diverse.

There are mostly white non-London raised middle class bubbles in gentrified areas who appear to be slightly aloof (like the idea of living in a diverse area but don't actually want to truly mix with the rest of the community) and then there's the rest of us (lower middle class/working class) mixing, celebrating together and looking out for each other and elderly neighbours.

This is my experience too, my area has gentrified massively. The only people who buy on my road now are white & tend to come from very privileged backgrounds.

I also think my childhood was more diverse socio economically wise as the schools didn't have the tiny catchments & associated high house prices.

I think it's perfectly possible to just enjoy being around and have a respect for diversity. I used to live in a very diverse, multi-cultural part of a city and genuinely loved it - I enjoyed being around a mix of people and was on good terms with all of my neighbours even though I suppose my close friends are pretty much the same as me.
I now don't live in the UK and I have to say that learning a new language as an adult is so, so hard. It's fairly easy to learn useful phrases etc... but to get to the point of being able to have a natural conversation with a native speaker takes years and years. And it's so hard to fully integrate when poor language skills essentially take away your ability to really get a true sense of yourself across. I often feel very 2 dimensional when I'm speaking my second language and I've got to admit that it's such a relief when I meet another English speaker as it's so effortless.
Obviously, a language barrier isn't what a lot of people are talking about here, but when it does exist it's a huge barrier to close friendships forming.

Class definitely trumps race, I’m friends with mostly people like me, and the friends I have who are not the same race as me are the same class, income bracket and job type but I’m not friends with anyone who’s a different class to me, which makes sense because you want to spend time with people who like the same things as you and had similar upbringings.

I think it depends on your outlook. I think I value diversity because I'm interested in other people's experiences and stories, so I have a wide range of friendships with plenty of people unlike me because I enjoy hearing different input. I kind of have a good idea what my friends who are just like me are going to think or feel about a situation - there's not a huge amount of new understanding that we are collectively going to bring to a conversation.

My son’s school (large state primary in a fairly leafy part of London) is very diverse in terms of nationality and religion. I do think it’s a really good thing about the school. However, to be honest I don’t think we’re that diverse in other ways. With the caveat that I don’t know everyone and you can’t necessarily tell what people’s situation is, we’re a bunch of fairly middle class almost entirely two-parent conventional families, whether the parents are from Egypt, Bulgaria, Japan, Pakistan or wherever!

I live (have moved to, not from here originally) in an area of the UK second in degree of diversity only to London. I am frequently shocked at the casual racism my fellow white Brits have for their Asian and A-C neighbours, and how this is tolerated. In the main they have been living alongside each other for many years, children growing up side by side. It’s very much a sense of “together, but separate”. I was so surprised when I moved here from London.

What’s also startling is the very discrete separation of “white” areas vs “Asian” areas - neighbourhoods right next to each other where the inhabitants don’t really mix, or generally socialise. We live a mile from a large urban conurbation yet my daughters school is 98% white. I suppose it’s an extreme example of people “keeping to their own”. I’m not sure what diversity actually means to people here..... it’s odd.

@TheRebelle

Class definitely trumps race, I’m friends with mostly people like me, and the friends I have who are not the same race as me are the same class, income bracket and job type but I’m not friends with anyone who’s a different class to me, which makes sense because you want to spend time with people who like the same things as you and had similar upbringings.

This is my experience too. I have various friendship groups, very diverse in terms of race or culture but all similar socio-economic background with similar values.

@KizzyWayfarer

My son’s school (large state primary in a fairly leafy part of London) is very diverse in terms of nationality and religion. I do think it’s a really good thing about the school. However, to be honest I don’t think we’re that diverse in other ways. With the caveat that I don’t know everyone and you can’t necessarily tell what people’s situation is, we’re a bunch of fairly middle class almost entirely two-parent conventional families, whether the parents are from Egypt, Bulgaria, Japan, Pakistan or wherever!

Yes. Very similar to this. Mainly Indian / Sri Lankan, white British, mix of Eastern European round here. But mostly two-parent working parents.

I think it depends on lots of things.

When we lived in a area that was mostly a bit dodgy, I was extremely happy in our little oasis of middle class safety.

Now I live in a massive swathe of middle class ‘niceness’ it really pisses me off that everyone is the same - posh, white, dresses from Seasalt and I now really like meeting people from the more interesting bits of the city who aren’t clones of me.

I think it’s nuanced.

I have a family member in a large south london borough which is very diverse. They are one of 4 now Adult kids. And
Having seen their lives pan out and how and other they live in their borough i agree with PP. Very little
mixing seems to happen. None of the 4 adult kids have any non white friends. A couple or acquaintances maybe. Everything
Seems to happen politely in parallel-is that really diversity?

I do

When people talk about diversity it's always to do with race, sexuality and gender. For me the biggest divide is class.

Most middle class white people would be more than happy to have gay, black, Indian, lesbian, trans friends who are also middle class. Less so gay, black etc. members of the working class.

Homophily

I'm a white girl from upper-middle class family... When I was in one school, all my BFF were Mexican (barrio dwelling) or Black (ghetto residents) although one friend was mixed Jewish-Mexican UMCF. Since then, I've mostly studied, lived or worked in 95% white areas so the opportunity to have diverse social contact mostly can't happen.

Unis & Schools can do a lot to facilitate mixing, but hasn't reached many workplaces in same way. I suppose in NHS & other parts of public sector: the social mix of staff can be very broad there.

@Misbeehived

Yes I do. My close friends are similar middle class professionals but there’s diversity of upbringing, race, religion; nationality; LGBT; region etc. I know and chat to my neighbours, including the older neighbours who lived here before it gentrified. People look out for each other.

Like lots of London we live somewhere where wealth/ poverty sit cheek by jowl and that’s reflected in our choice of school eg there is a good proportion of FSM/PP Funding. There are also lots of parents from wealthier professionals law, medicine, creatives, media etc. There are also 100 different nationalities attending the school. I really couldn’t care less who DC play with (or what their parents do) as long as they are nice, kind children. There are a few parents who joined in reception who I think tried to cultivate a middle class “in crowd” but a few years on it’s not really there.

I don’t think my life is utopian it feels very natural. You’d have to make an active choice to discriminate in our circumstances.

Yep, I’m with you on all that.

And, actually, even if we adults have to make a conscious effort to embrace diversity and inclusion, we should do it so that our kids grow up to simply expect it.

I work in a diverse school and in lessons students will happily work with students from other backgrounds. However in social time/given the chance to choose groups then they always choose people from the same background. So Muslim girls always stick together, black girls stick together, white middle class girls stick together, white working class girls stick together.

Bristol has areas that are arty and claim to be socialist/liberal politically. Yet they send their children to schools with other white middle class children. They mix with other white middle class families. They claim to support asylum seekers - yet I don't know for sure they would want a hostel on their road in Redland or Bishopston if it meant groups of men in their early 20s hanging around outside as they can't yet work & have no money to go anywhere. Same with supporting the homeless. It's ok as long as the hostels aren't on their road.

So I agree and I think it is not only diversity of skin colour, but also social class. People ultimately feel more comfortable surrounded by their own familiar type of person.

It’s complex really.

I’m black WC east end, but have degrees, professional.

When I had DC I realised I lived but hadn’t been a part of the community as while my friends are diverse by race/religion etc it’s only when I went to the free baby classes that I integrated with the local community.

However I think a previous poster nailed it - diversity isn’t just about having friends from a different race, it’s about respecting those differences really.

I remember being a bit wary on a packed tube while pregnant a EDL looking guy kept staring at me.

After maybe 2 stops he exploded - ‘I cannot believe you are all seated while a pregnant woman is standing’.

Yes I reflected on my prejudices and assumptions, yes he wasn’t profiling me by race, yes I got a seat.

To me, that is diversity.

@catherineMorland I'm sure Dorset is full of very ethnically diverse people but just not the bit I was in. It is very different from where I live where my DSs main friendship group consists of an evangelical Christian, 2 Sikhs, 1 Muslim, and 2 atheists. They speak over 10 languages at home in his class and worked out that there were 22 different countries represented that they could play football for in the world cup! Socially as well it is a huge mixed bag of income, class and political allegiance.