Solicitors put DH name first.

[Tullyjune]

We are buying a house. I’ve done all the conveyancing quotes in my name, I’m the only one that’s communicated with them from my personal email. I paid the deposit with my bank card.

Yet the paperwork has all come through with DHs name first. It’s not even alphabetical.

I know it’s not the end of the world and most people wouldn’t give it a second thought. But it’s pissed me off.

Just getting it off my chest.

Convention is Mr and Mrs. If a woman takes her husband's surname, I expect she must be a fan of convention, so I think nothing of "Mr and Mrs Smith".

If the woman has kept her own surname (or isn't married), then I'll order the letter in terms of who I think is most likely to read it, so it might be "Mrs Bloggs and Mr Smith".

Here, if only first names have been used, there's no reason the OP's name didn't go first. I suppose I would have been mildly annoyed too.

Personally, I change all our nameless correspondence from "Dear Sir" or "Dear Sir/Madam". That's an act of rebellion as it stands, I think "Dear Madam/Sir" would be spotted.

"Dear Sirs/Mesdames" is clunky, but I correct letters that say "Dear Sirs" if they're going to a board of directors that I know have both men and women serving.

I never quite know what to do when there's just one woman ("Dear Sirs/Madam" sounds odd) so I always override the system to send it to a named person instead to get around it.

I was really annoyed when we registered our childs birth. I asked why the fathers name is first on the document when:
a) we’re not married so he couldn’t register without me
And
b) even if we were, without a test we can still only be sure that I’m the mother and everyone has to take my word that he’s the father (he is).

It really pisses me off that it’s this way around for no reason other than historical patriarchy

@DelBocaVista

I’m not going to die on the cross to defend my filing system. It’s just what I’ve done to date.

I guess we're very different. If I thought any aspect of my professional practice perpetuated sexism I'd be changing it pretty sharpish.

I don’t think it’s perpetuates sexism. I think it’s partly how English language has evolved - with the use of Mr and Mrs in that order and it’s just an extension of that which seems logical to me. But I accept others don’t agree and am capable of acknowledging another’s POV unlike some.

I always put the point of contact first on contracts and if I have regular contact with both parties I tend to swap back and forth with order on greetings in correspondence for politeness.
Architect - so deal with a lot of couples on projects.
I hate that DS1s school always defer to DH even though he literally has nothing to do with DSs school, when I last wrote a complaint which just had my name on it the response came back to Mr & Mrs !!!! DS2s school is slightly better.

@Tullyjune

We are buying a house. I’ve done all the conveyancing quotes in my name, I’m the only one that’s communicated with them from my personal email. I paid the deposit with my bank card.

Yet the paperwork has all come through with DHs name first. It’s not even alphabetical.

I know it’s not the end of the world and most people wouldn’t give it a second thought. But it’s pissed me off.

Just getting it off my chest.

When I write cards etc, I always sign off with my DP name first then mine. They aren't in alphabetical order either

@DelBocaVista

I think it’s more likely I’ve inherited a filing system from my days of training and being an assistant myself and have never questioned it, on the basis of it works for me. rather than actively set about to commit sexism.

It doesn't matter if it's conscious or not! It's still sexism.
Don't let your unconscious biases impact on your professional practice. Challenge behaviour and practices which perpetuate inequality.
Don't use 'that's how we've always done it' as an excuse.

I’m not using it as an “excuse” it’s not an excuse. I’m saying that’s likely why I’ve always done it to date and acknowledged there might be a better alternative which I’ve indicted I’ll consider. What do you want from me blood?

As Cait said it’s convention. It’s ironic how women are still happy to take a mans surname yet complain when it’s used appropriately! I couldn’t give two hoots if I receive a letter to Mr and Mrs Dinohat. It just doesn’t excite me like it obviously does you.

@PlanDeRaccordement

It is definitely sexism because people will always put the husband name first on mortgages, deeds, contracts and without fail they will always put the mother name first on everything to do with children- so the school, the doctor, any clubs.

So the argument that it’s just chance that man is listed first falls flat because women get listed first and contacted first when it’s something involving a child. It’s 100% deliberate.

Yes this.

And it’s important to get your name on legal and insurance documents. Often they will only deal with the first named person or , as a PP said, send cheques in his name.

Interestingly enough, I never have this problem when it’s two female names.

Or They get very confused when they don’t know the sexes and therefore can’t work out who is the main person.

I don’t think it’s perpetuates sexism. I think it’s partly how English language has evolved - with the use of Mr and Mrs in that order and it’s just an extension of that which seems logical to me. But I accept others don’t agree and am capable of acknowledging another’s POV unlike some.

It's not about having an alternative POV. It is sexism. The very definition of it! Whether it's intentional or not is irrelevant.

I deliver lectures on this topic and use a very similar example to my students to highlight unconscious bias and everyday sexism.

You might not be bothered by it - which is your right of course and you may have no inclination to change your practice which again, is your choice.

But it is an example of everyday sexism and unconscious bias.

I wonder what those who do this would do if a same sex couple was buying a house/getting a building quote/booking flight?

When it’s Louise Jones and Emma Jones - Would you put the person who booked/paid first or would you go alphabetical? Whatever it is you would do, that’s what you should do now with a mixed sex couple.

Exactly the same thing has just happened to me too. It is offensive, and in hindsight should've been a red flag about the competency of the solicitor.

Last time I bought a house although I had all the dealings with the solicitors and the correspondence trail would have shown that...they kept ringing DH to ask him questions and every time he laughed at them and said you are ringing the wrong person and told them to call me.

Took them a while to get the hang of it. But for all those claiming it's efficient to have the mans name first, how is this time wasting from having the wrong first contact in any way shape or form a good idea?

@DinoHat

I do this with clients, someone’s name has to come first and if I always put the mans first I know where to look first when I’m looking for their file, this is especially true where they have different surnames. Sometimes I have in excess of 120 cases, if I don’t have a system it makes filing and finding file (especially whilst I have a client on the phone) a little more complicated and frankly anything that makes me more efficient means I can get on with the actual work.

This rationale makes no sense. If you were instructed by the wife, why would you look for the husband’s name when looking for a file. I don’t even share the same surname as my DH? How is that keeping things in order. Having worked in law for over 25 years it has been standard for a client’s surname to be the locator not whether someone has penis or is Mr. In recent numbers are used. How you process information into a CMS is a choice.

It is moaning, seriously what actual difference does it make to which name comes first as long as your name is on there and sort correctly that's al that actually matters

We signed up to life insurance jointly. I did all the research, discussions with the brokers etc. When we identified a suitable package we agreed to sign up and our details were passed over to the relevant company. Paperwork was then sent out ‘private and confidentially’ to my husband only. I raised a complaint. They said their ‘systems’ only allowed letters to be sent in one name. I pointed out that they should go to the key contact - who is this case was me. This big, established company - Royal London - just couldn’t get their heads around this.

@emilyfrost

Curious how it puts all women in a bad light?

Because complaining about this makes feminism look silly, as though it’s just little women moaning about non issues. Which you are doing.

Couldn't agree more. Makes us look weak and petty.

@HalzTangz

It is moaning, seriously what actual difference does it make to which name comes first as long as your name is on there and sort correctly that's al that actually matters

Everyday sexism is a big deal to some people. It's not moaning it's challenging outdated views and practices.

Eugh I feel this! Whoever is the main contact should be listed first. I chose not to take my husbands name and things like this come up all the time. X

@GeorgiaGirl52

Because it is Mr. and Mrs. NOT Mrs. and Mr.

I don’t use Mrs. DH and I don’t share a name. Anyone assuming we do gets put right sharpish by both of us.

@Abraxan

The school always calls me regarding the DCs and expects me to help on trips etc. Even though I work nights so my DH does at least 50% of the school runs.

We call in order of contact list, which is completed by the parents in admission. So there are 3 or 4 contacts. We. All contact 1 first and work,our way down.

Although we have just as many dads doing drop off and pick up (and school trip volunteers) as mums nearly always mum is contact 1. But that is the parents who have written it that way. We aren't making the assumption.

Have to interject here. Just cause it was so funny but not. During the early part of lockdown the kids were learning from home and one of those catch up calls were made and they called the 4th number on the list to ask how my DD was. My sister is 12 miles away during lockdown had no idea.

@HalzTangz

It is moaning, seriously what actual difference does it make to which name comes first as long as your name is on there and sort correctly that's al that actually matters

Because I’m dealing with them!! Not my DH, he will have no input into the administration of this house sale beyond signing where I tell him to sign. It’s my job, I’ve funded it from my earnings. I should be addressed in formal communication, because it’s me they are dealing with.

Referring to my husband isn’t only sexist, it’s bloody rude. It would be rude in a same sex couple to randomly relegate the person who instructed and paid you to second contact.

Also reminds me when we were having building work done a few years ago. I used to WFH, DH worked in an office (We've now done a complete switch now due to Covid).

When one of the contractors was working on our house (contractor on behalf of the builder, had never had any dealings with me or DH), he said to me 'your DH must have a good job if you have so many children and you're having all this work done'

I looked him straight in the eye and said 'no, but my wife does' - just to see the look on his face!

Couldn't agree more. Makes us look weak and petty.

God forbid we challenge everyday sexism.
I mean, how do we decide when it does become an issue? Shall we just not bother at all?

Catcalls are just compliments yeah?

Schools always phoning mum is because of course she's a better parent and her job isn't as important isn't a problem is or?

The electricity company only putting my ex-h name on the account even though I paid for it isn't a problem until he leaves and I need to change the account name but they won't let me without his permission

Let's not challenge these because we look weak and petty??? Bizarre

This rationale makes no sense. If you were instructed by the wife, why would you look for the husband’s name when looking for a file. I don’t even share the same surname as my DH? How is that keeping things in order. Having worked in law for over 25 years it has been standard for a client’s surname to be the locator not whether someone has penis or is Mr. In recent numbers are used. How you process information into a CMS is a choice.

This. Surely your current system causes confusion. If I am dealing with the solicitors then I would say “Hi, this is Louise Jones, I am calling about the purchase of 25 Station Road.” Except you have saved all my details under David Smith. So how do you find my file? “Thank you Miss Jones - now important question - do you have a man in your life?”

I recently got a mortgage offer through a female banker. She said (to me, DH wasn't on the call): 'and obviously I'll put your husband's name first' and my response was: 'and why on earth is that obvious or appropriate'? She laughed and did it anyway. I was really annoyed.

@Tullyjune

I wonder what those who do this would do if a same sex couple was buying a house/getting a building quote/booking flight?

When it’s Louise Jones and Emma Jones - Would you put the person who booked/paid first or would you go alphabetical? Whatever it is you would do, that’s what you should do now with a mixed sex couple.

I’m not part of a same sex couple but I’m on some utility bills with my DD. My name is first and funnily enough it’s never been a problem, they have never swapped them around.

Only seems to be an issue with one male and one female name. Gosh I wonder why that is.....