Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

Some of the Woking classes are aspirational, believe it or not

Actually I think you'll find that quite a lot are. This makes sense since it's the working class who built this country in the first place and whose efforts still keep it going, and most of them wouldn't thank you to regard them as victims

Trouble is, a constituency of victims is what the hard left seem to want, so that they can be persuaded only voting Labour will "save" them ... and as we see time and again, it isn't working

@onlineschoolmum

Not from Hartlepool but live in a nearby constituency.

The Labour candidate was on the board that decided to close Hartlepool hospital, which didn’t help (although I don’t think he will have wanted to, as he seems a nice guy from what I hear - friend of mine knows him slightly).

The Tees Tory mayor has revitalised jobs in the local area, which are quite highly paid (a problem in the NE, where local talent finds it hard to progress) and has helped bring the Treasury to Darlington. He’s also revived the local airport. He doesn’t seem overly Tory either - he doesn’t always follow their policy but puts the local area first. This has possibly influenced people to see stories as more Can Do.

Just my opinions of course!

Very interesting, thank you.

It's enlightening to hear realistic feedback that highlights what Party A did and what Party B did not do, and how those actions have affected people in terms of their day-to-day life, as an insight into reasons why a vote swung a particular way.

Far more useful than 'they done it cos they are thick' that so many posters recur to.

Labour is dead I'm afraid. Corbyn was a symptom not the cause. Remember, he won more votes than Brown, Miliband, and 2x Blair. With FPTP, the UK almost certain to break up - only question being when - in ten years England could be a virtual one party state, unless either:

A) Labour admits defeat and convinces SNP, Greens to officially join forces, and successfully sells this to electorate. Unlikely.
B) A completely new populist left/progressive party with none of the Labour baggage is formed.

Labour seem to think that ‘the Tories are cunts’ is a good enough strategy. It really isn’t.

The party clearly has nothing to say to the traditional voting base. They need to fix that by actually listening to their concerns.

@Puzzledandpissedoff
This makes sense since it's the working class who built this country in the first place and whose efforts still keep it going, and most of them wouldn't thank you to regard them as victims

Well. yes they did. In part. But they also had quite a hand from the working classes around the world whose countries Britain colonized and enriched itself from their gruelling labour. Let's keep to the facts.

Not RTFT, and not in Hartlepool, but am a former Labour supporter in the NE. IMO, it's because the NE has always been solidly Labour, and it has achieved nothing for us. We're taken for granted by Labour and ignored by the Tories. Areas like Hartlepool still haven't recovered from what Thatcher did to the area. There has been precious little inward investment like there was into other working class former Labour areas like Scotland. People in Hartlepool will have looked at nearby constituencies that went Tory in 2019 and seen that all of a sudden, they are getting new investment, incentives or stay blue. They want some of that. Labour isn't going to do it for them.
It's not a trick the tories can pull off forever because if they pour all the investment in to the red wall they'll lose their traditional heartlands.
I'd rather gnaw my own limbs off than vote Tory but I understand why Hartlepool did. Being GC, I also can't vote Labour, and have had a small insight into what it's like being on the 'wrong' side of an argument according to the liberal left. It's reallyfucking annoying to be patronised as thick then castigated as a bigot. If you're a brexiteer in Hartlepool, you've had 5+years of that from Labour. Why would you support a party that takes you for granted, no longer represents the party's original ideals and fairly openly despises you?

@TheKeatingFive
The trouble is that Labour "needs" to listen to this group. And that group. And that group. And that one over there. All who have conflicting concerns and interests. It is impossible to spread itself so thin. And it has competition from the Lib Dems and the Greens and the SNP for the "progressive" vote, while the Tories now have the right all to themselves. And thats before you take into account the huge numbers in Wales, Scotland, and N.Ireland who are completely DONE with any Westminster Party. The UK is on its very last legs. And so is Labour, I'm afraid. It can't function as an England only party.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

'Labour are shit' is absolutely no excuse for voting Tory. None.

The problem is, if you lean to the left, who else do you vote for? The greens and libdems are even more mired in identity politics than Labour are, especially where women are concerned. All the excitement of relative newcomers like the equality party soon waned when they went the same way.

[quote MmeLaraque]@AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo

Voting Tory means you've either a huge bank balance, and are independently wealthy, or you're an idiot.

Or. God Forbid! Voting Tory means you have a different opinion hmm

Go on, then. The Tories have spent a decade cutting the funding to public services, so there aren't enough police to do an effective job.... so that when you call for help, no one shows up. Your opinion on that is?

The Tories have been in power for all that time. They could have sorted things out, but they haven't. They've chosen to make things worse. They don't care about people. They care about money and power. I very much doubt they care about *you. Do you?

Your opinion doesn't change facts and evidence. All those people complaining they don't want trans people accessing the same public toilets as them: why? They're trying to use a toilet. If you really think a trans person would go to all that trouble just so they could plan some devious attack in a toilet block, you really don't have a clue what trans people are experiencing. No, I'm not trans, but I have a few trans people in my life. The vitriol aimed at and against them is appalling.[/quote]
Do you genuinely think this is what women are terrified of or are you wilfully not listening?
We are concerned about trans women in prisons. We are concerned about lesbians being coerced into having to include trans women in their safe spaces and dating pools. We are concerned about males competing in female sports.
We are concerned that if a woman is raped, she can ask for a female to conduct the medical examination, and not have to accept a trans woman do that examination.
There are many, many more big issues this raises. The changing in room situation is just the thin end of the wedge.

But that investment in the infrastructure only became available when a chink in the red wall appeared with the loss of places like Blyth and Redcar.
Similar thing happened in Jake Berry and Robert Jenrick's constituencies with the towns regeneration fund. But us w/c proles aren't bothered about stuff like that

Gutted, the Tories have done nothing but slice and dice round our way, police stations knowkced down, parks removed for housing, wages stagnated, and Doris is about as useful as a chocolate teapot...the only reason people aren't more angry is because there is so much to be angry about, its numbed them.
Corbyn was destroyed by the media, the smear campaign was arduous but worked well at those who like taking their tabloids, and Starmer is a wet-wipe of a man who has shafted Labour right up the chuff. Gutted, for my family, for everyone who isn't on big big bucks. The tories are corrupt, sneaky and seem to be made of Teflon...

NewsThump

@Espirito
It's really fucking annoying to be patronised as thick then castigated as a bigot. If you're a brexiteer in Hartlepool, you've had 5+years of that from Labour. Why would you support a party that takes you for granted, no longer represents the party's original ideals and fairly openly despises you?

I wouldn't, but I wouldn't vote for the Conservatives either. I just don't get why being disheartened with Labour = a vote for the Tories. I don't buy the "I had no choice" narrative. The "but they were ignoring me" narrative. Be accountable for your vote and the impact it will have (a Conservative vote) on the poorest people and the poorest communities.

They also had quite a hand from the working classes around the world whose countries Britain colonized and enriched itself from their gruelling labour

This is true, but I'm not sure it'll have been at the forefront of voters' minds in Hartlepool or anywhere else

IME - especially given the disaters of the last year - people tend to focus on the here and now rather than engaging in self-flagellation over historical injustices. I don't say this is right, only that it is, and it's something else Labour would do well to remember

I think the answer would be clearer if you ever went to Hartlepool or surrounding towns. We’ve suffered major poverty and our areas being so run down under labours power. There’s a huge lack of job opportunities and people are sick of it and want change.

Labour are shit in the north east and we’ve all had enough of them.

Saying all that I still couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory

It’s not just Hartlepool - early results suggest labour are getting hammered in the local elections

I'm a socialist (the old fashioned type) and I won't vote Labour. I just don't vote anymore.

Labour are an utter disgrace now.

We’ve suffered major poverty and our areas being so run down under labours power. There’s a huge lack of job opportunities and people are sick of it and want change.

But couldn't the party who've been in government for the past 11 years have done something?

From the horses mouth?

@Hoohaahoo labour weren't in power though. Which party decided that austerity was a good idea ?

Voter's won't vote for people who hate them. They don't feel that they can represent them in Parliament.

Maybe all the labour moaners could bear that in mind when they chastise people for not voting for their party and insist that their is something wrong with those people who, up until a few years ago, would never countenance voting Tory.

As a starting point, the party could start listening and stop preaching

But that investment in the infrastructure only became available when a chink in the red wall appeared with the loss of places like Blyth and Redcar.

So how much of that largess do you think they would continue to spread around if they gained more seats? They can do it for a few token areas but otherwise it all sounds a little too socialist.

Voting Tory means you've either a huge bank balance, and are independently wealthy, or you're an idiot.

It's obviously complex, but a contributing factor is that there are Labour voters who believe the above statement. If Labour were that bright, they'd be winning.

I know a lot of working class people, who live in working class areas who vote Tory. I think the mistake that people make about the working class is that they live their lives solidly identifying as 'working class'. As being at the bottom rung of the ladder or some such. Requiring pity. In my experience (as working class myself) most people don't. They are just getting on with life. Doing the best they can with what they have and trying to enjoy life. Not taking life too seriously.

I think Labour depresses people, because they make the working class 'feel' working class, feel pitied, feel patronised.

Be accountable for your vote and the impact it will have (a Conservative vote) on the poorest people and the poorest communities.

Errrr has it occurred to you that some of the poorest people might have voted Tory? That someone who is disabled might have been more affected by the Labour candidates history of closing hospitals than the bedroom tax? Or that someone who is unemployed might welcome the Tory candidates history of job creation? Your ignorance of the lives of actual poor people is astounding. If you in are in any way involved with the Labour Party, I really do think you need to meet and listen to people beyond your echo chamber.