Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

@Blackberrycream of course some of the working classes like grammar schools but most are middle class enclaves with few children on FSM.
I was countering the accusation that all labour supporters are members of the metropolitan elite, whatever that is. And yes some of us are aspirational, nothing wrong with that. No one wants to be dependent on benefits and I don't think any labour mp ever espoused that.

Well, let's ask what Labour did get wrong.

Poor choice of candidate for one thing.
Secondly, underestimating where the one time UKIP vote would go to. At one time it would have been back to Labour, now with Johnson's Tories they have a natural home.

@PronounssheRa
I genuinely think Labour need a neil kinnock type leader, they will never be PM but will do the groundwork to clear out some of the hard left cranks who do damage to the party. After that another leader might have a chance.

I think they need a team. A credible leader from the centre of the party that can resurrect the progressive policies of the late-90s, and a bulldog deputy leader of the Kinnock/Prescott type to root out the Hard Left that Corbyn allowed/encouraged back inside the party. They've still got a few really good politicians with credibility in parliament (e.g. Cooper). They lack an Alastair Campbell to keep them on-message. The Corbyn period was beset with media cock-ups where frontbenchers repeatedly went into interviews inadequately briefed (Corbyn, Abbot, etc.) and Starmer is still repeating basic errors (the conversion church visit, etc.).

Rhys-Mogg has been banned by the Conservatives from speaking out loud since he said things like if people in grenfell tower had used their common sense they wouldn't have died

Not from Hartlepool but live in a nearby constituency.

The Labour candidate was on the board that decided to close Hartlepool hospital, which didn’t help (although I don’t think he will have wanted to, as he seems a nice guy from what I hear - friend of mine knows him slightly).

The Tees Tory mayor has revitalised jobs in the local area, which are quite highly paid (a problem in the NE, where local talent finds it hard to progress) and has helped bring the Treasury to Darlington. He’s also revived the local airport. He doesn’t seem overly Tory either - he doesn’t always follow their policy but puts the local area first. This has possibly influenced people to see stories as more Can Do.

Just my opinions of course!

@MiaMc

I’m surprised the conservatives have won. Not because I assumed it would go to Labour, but because there were 16 candidates! Will be interesting to see how much the vote was split. It might just be that they crept in because so many people voted for all the alternatives and it split the vote too much.

It turns out, the Con majority is so huge , those who voted for 14 other candidates would have made no difference at all if they had voted either Labour or Conservative.

Why would the white working class poor vote for labour when it hasn't been their party for decades? Labour is now a middle class metropolitan party who call their traditional voting base thick and racist there's no one for them to vote for.

[quote MmeLaraque]@AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo

Voting Tory means you've either a huge bank balance, and are independently wealthy, or you're an idiot.

Or. God Forbid! Voting Tory means you have a different opinion hmm

Go on, then. The Tories have spent a decade cutting the funding to public services, so there aren't enough police to do an effective job.... so that when you call for help, no one shows up. Your opinion on that is?

The Tories have been in power for all that time. They could have sorted things out, but they haven't. They've chosen to make things worse. They don't care about people. They care about money and power. I very much doubt they care about *you. Do you?

Your opinion doesn't change facts and evidence. All those people complaining they don't want trans people accessing the same public toilets as them: why? They're trying to use a toilet. If you really think a trans person would go to all that trouble just so they could plan some devious attack in a toilet block, you really don't have a clue what trans people are experiencing. No, I'm not trans, but I have a few trans people in my life. The vitriol aimed at and against them is appalling.[/quote]
I really don’t think you’re one to pass judgment on vitriol...

I haven’t actually ever voted Tory, but it’s perfectly possible to imagine non-malevolent reasons why people might. It’s called nuance innit!

So maybe people vote Tory because they feel that they prefer paying low taxes? Maybe they would rather have more money at the end of the week than a Sure Start centre? Maybe they think the public sector shouldn’t absolve people of personal responsibility? Maybe they think that leaving the EU is more important than police? Who knows. The point is that you and I might disagree with them; but unlike you, I respect that different people have different values and priorities. I see people in 3D and don’t rush to assume that someone who votes Tory or even a Labour voter who thinks sex matters, must also be a 2D fascist caricature.

@PseudoBadger

Rhys-Mogg has been banned by the Conservatives from speaking out loud since he said things like if people in grenfell tower had used their common sense they wouldn't have died

That is an example of how people are misquoted by the press.

All people. From all parties. It happens to them all.

Most sensible people don't just read a headline and leave it at that before they make up their minds about something.

Will be interesting to see how much the vote was split.
It might just be that they crept in because so many people voted for all the alternatives and it split the vote too much

Doesn’t look like it. A majority of 7000 isn’t creeping in, and most of the 16 lost their deposits.

@onetoomuch I can imagine that, I and many others probably do not believe the conservatives will be a better choice, but are left with little choice.

I also take on board your point about the cuts from central government. That said Labour have been in power in my life time and there appeared to be no great advantage to the area. As it happens the city was without a cinema between around 1999 and 2004 when Tony Blair of the Sedgefield constituency was PM. Whilst I realise that is not directly linked to him, there was no greater share of the pie during his time in office. I appreciate there is more to consider during elections than regeneration of your local area, however local elections should be lead by local issues. You cannot simply go on voting for people who take your vote for granted. Hopefully this will be a further step in the right direction for real change in the Labour party. Though I will not count on it.

@hamstersarse, only one of the Tories you mention is a party leader. And I didn’t say only Corbyn was given a hard time, did I? I said Labour leaders routinely get a harder time from the press than the Conservative leaders do. They do. Unsurprising given the dominance of the right wing in the British media. It’s disingenuous for people to pretend that the papers give both parties a fair go. But I also don’t think it’s a reason for Labour politicians to throw up their hands and say ‘well there’s nothing we can do about it, everyone aside from the Guardian and Mirror is against us’. They need to find away around the Daily Mail and Express headlines.

I saw on Twitter earlier that there is a campaign to cancel Sleeping Beauty because the kiss that wakes her was 'non-consensual'. This is the sort of bollocks that people are sick of. This is the sort of nonsense that Labour has become synonymous with.

People want to hear about policies that affect their daily lives. Labour don't offer this. I can't think of a single policy that Labour stands for that is not linked to a 'trending' social or political movement.

@Peregrina

Some of the working classes quite like grammar schools.

Only when their own children got in, which they disproportionately did not do. It's even worse now in the remaining Grammar counties of Kent and Bucks, where going by MN threads, children are heavily tutored to get into them.

You seem to have an amazing window on the thoughts of a whole class of people. Or are you assuming working class people are a mass with all the same opinion.

@onlineschoolmum

Not from Hartlepool but live in a nearby constituency.

The Labour candidate was on the board that decided to close Hartlepool hospital, which didn’t help (although I don’t think he will have wanted to, as he seems a nice guy from what I hear - friend of mine knows him slightly).

The Tees Tory mayor has revitalised jobs in the local area, which are quite highly paid (a problem in the NE, where local talent finds it hard to progress) and has helped bring the Treasury to Darlington. He’s also revived the local airport. He doesn’t seem overly Tory either - he doesn’t always follow their policy but puts the local area first. This has possibly influenced people to see stories as more Can Do.

Just my opinions of course!

No no no! You can’t have an opinion, don’t you know the North owes Labour a lifetime of safe seats?

How dare those pesky proles value jobs and hospitals?!

'Labour are shit' is absolutely no excuse for voting Tory. None.

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

Will be interesting to see how much the vote was split. It might just be that they crept in because so many people voted for all the alternatives and it split the vote too much

Doesn’t look like it. A majority of 7000 isn’t creeping in, and most of the 16 lost their deposits.

More than "doesn't look like it" - a flat out no.

The Conservative candidate got 51.9% of the vote. Even if all the alternative votes had been for one candidate, she'd still have won.

Hartlepool was 70% leave, had a large Brexit party vote in 2019. So I was not surprised at the Tory win, only the scale.

Perhaps as is often the case, the Tory vote is more likely to turn out, and people who would have voted Labour in some cases just did not bother.

Not in Hartlepool but I am a Labour socialist.
Keir's Labour, what exactly does it stand for? Other than getting rid of Left leaning Labour members? He offers the charisma and omph of wet lettuce.
Hartlepool was a majority Brexit supporter place. In 2019, The Brexit Party won a quarter of the votes, Labour held it though.
So Keir offers- a staunch Remainer candidate.
We had no chance!

But you do also wonder exactly what Boris has to do to lose? I know we have the vaccine now, but that's naff all to do with Boris.
You get to feeling like Boris could nuke part of the country and still bloody win

I live in the NE (in a city not far from Hartlepool) and vote Conservative. I would NEVER vote for a Labour candidate. Our current Labour run council has been unchallenged for so long it has become extremely complacent, and corrupt.

I can only speak for my own city but there has been many issues with our Labour run council, and the councillors themselves, they are at real risk of losing their leadership at the next local elections.

People here are voting strategically to get Labour out, so not necessarily Tory, just whoever has the best chance of taking the Labour candidates seat.

Keir's Labour, what exactly does it stand for? Other than getting rid of Left leaning Labour members? He offers the charisma and omph of wet lettuce.

Quite. He doesn't seem to stand for much. He's been far too meek, trying to be all things to all Labour voters and former Labour voters. But it ain't landing.

He doesn’t seem overly Tory either - he doesn’t always follow their policy but puts the local area first. This has possibly influenced people to see stories as more Can Do.

This is a most interesting observation. He sounds to be from a completely different mould to Boris Johnson. Pity then that the party doesn't have more like them, and can boot Johnson out.

Labour, Lib Dem’s and the greens have lost a lot of women supporters. If none of them know what a woman is anymore and suggest our specific needs are transphobic why would we vote for them?