Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken:

Do you genuinely think this is what women are terrified of or are you wilfully not listening?
We are concerned about trans women in prisons. We are concerned about lesbians being coerced into having to include trans women in their safe spaces and dating pools. We are concerned about males competing in female sports.
We are concerned that if a woman is raped, she can ask for a female to conduct the medical examination, and not have to accept a trans woman do that examination.
There are many, many more big issues this raises. The changing in room situation is just the thin end of the wedge.

Who is this "we"?

The Tees Tory mayor has revitalised jobs in the local area, which are quite highly paid (a problem in the NE, where local talent finds it hard to progress) and has helped bring the Treasury to Darlington. He’s also revived the local airport. He doesn’t seem overly Tory either - he doesn’t always follow their policy but puts the local area first.

Yes, I think Houchen has a lot to do with it to. He might be a bit of a loud mouth but he is, hands down, bloody brilliant at communicating via social media and charting progress for people to see as he gets things done.

People have been conned into thinking a leader needs to be charismatic. BJ is a scheming, nihilistic elitist, but people think he has what it takes to be a leader. KS is reserved and has integrity, but people think he is not charismatic. People have a totally wrong set of priorities.

I'm a strong remainer. But... the labour party just went silent on all this. We've got to make the best of the shit situation we're in. I wanted them to say... 'many of us didn't agree with it, but we're going to pull together and find the best way forward, new opportunities etc etc..' they just didn't say anything, it was like a taboo and I found it really disappointing.

@SunsetBeetch

You need to move the question from "How could anyone vote for the Tories?" to "Where is Labour going wrong?".

Sadly the majority of Labour supporters (and I used to be one) seem incapable of this.

I start from the position of NEVER voting Tory, but I agree, its not really clear what the Labour Party is for at the moment.

There are some fantastic examples on this thread of exactly why Labour lost Hartlepool and will continue to lose everything that matters for quite some time. A stunning level of arrogance, condescension, narcissism, delusion and a complete inability to listen to anything but their own echo chamber runs through not only the Labour party, but so many of its supporters.

[quote MmeLaraque]@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken:

Do you genuinely think this is what women are terrified of or are you wilfully not listening?
We are concerned about trans women in prisons. We are concerned about lesbians being coerced into having to include trans women in their safe spaces and dating pools. We are concerned about males competing in female sports.
We are concerned that if a woman is raped, she can ask for a female to conduct the medical examination, and not have to accept a trans woman do that examination.
There are many, many more big issues this raises. The changing in room situation is just the thin end of the wedge.

Who is this "we"?[/quote]
“We” are the women you are referring to in this:

“ If you really think a trans person would go to all that trouble just so they could plan some devious attack in a toilet block, you really don't have a clue what trans people are experiencing.”

I think the mistake that people make about the working class is that they live their lives solidly identifying as 'working class'. As being at the bottom rung of the ladder or some such. Requiring pity

Spot on - and quite rightly, people don't like being patronised or co-opted to someone else's idea of victimhood

But once again the party aren't lisening ...

People have been conned into thinking a leader needs to be charismatic. BJ is a scheming, nihilistic elitist, but people think he has what it takes to be a leader. KS is reserved and has integrity, but people think he is not charismatic. People have a totally wrong set of priorities.

The widespread dislike of Starmer has nothing to do with his lack of charisma. With views like this it's no wonder the Labour party is in utter disarray and has faced yet another embarrassing humiliation.

@Applesonthelawn

Voting Tory means you've either a huge bank balance, and are independently wealthy, or you're an idiot.

It's obviously complex, but a contributing factor is that there are Labour voters who believe the above statement. If Labour were that bright, they'd be winning.

The last decade has been a fantastic example of how a state-supporting media can influence the electorate.

Murdoch tells the Tories to not worry, he can persuade 'em to believe whatever he wants 'em to.... and it's true. So much bullshit and so many lies and smear campaigns from Tory central. It works every time. Every Damned Time. "We want a change". SO you vote for the part who've spent the last decade in power, making damned sure that if you lost your job, chances are you'd lose your home, and struggle to feed your kids, too.

What labour mp has ever said they hated the w/c or leavers ?
If you look on the labour party website there's plenty about a post covid recovery plan.
Any case I agree that labour has an uphill task. We are essentially a one party state. Corruption, lies,
no one cares. Labour doesn't engage, conservatives make empty promises, the media lies, brexit and covid fallout yet to come, as a country we are buggered.

I see Labour have gained a seat in Falmouth from the Cons. The fishing industry was used as a useful prop and then dropped by the Tories.

Thick plebs voting for toffs.

Did they just become thick? Were they thick when they were voting for labour? In which case were labour taking advantage of perceived thick people when they previously had their vote? Or are they simply thick now because they've decided not to vote for labour? Maybe labour don't care if they're thick, just as long as they vote for the right party eh? What do you think?

Or maybe, they're not thick at all, but do recognise labour does not have their best interests at heart. My money's on this one. Personally. They can see labour for what it is. And they don't support it.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

“We” are the women you are referring to in this:

“ If you really think a trans person would go to all that trouble just so they could plan some devious attack in a toilet block, you really don't have a clue what trans people are experiencing."

I support trans people. They experience aggression and attacks already. Quite why you'd be so convinced they'd inflict that on another person is beyond me. Your prejudice is clear.

People have a totally wrong set of priorities.

Telling people their priorities are wrong doesn’t tend to be a good strategy in winning their votes.

I see Labour have gained a seat in Falmouth from the Cons.

That gave me a small glimmer of joy. Johnson and chums don't just have to talk the talk, but walk the walk, which they have most definitely not done when they Got Brexit Done as far as the fishing industry was concerned.

@TheYellowOfTheEgg

Starmer was the one, who came up with the 2019 Labour pledge of a second referendum if Labour won the election. He pushed this through as Labour policy.

"You voted the wrong way so we'll try again". Can you not see how offensive this was to Brexit voters in former Labour voting areas?

I'm in London and voted Remain (though I've changed my mind on Brexit since then), but I can see that it will take a long time for Labour to be forgiven for the second referendum pledge.

Labour's love of divisive identity politics and wokeness are also good reasons not to vote for them. Frankly Labour deserves this good kicking from areas like Hartlepool.

You think that's what the majority of voters are looking at?

Labour are weak, Keir Starmer is weak. To top it off the leader of the labour party is called "Sir". Of course Labour has lost touch with ordinary voters.

And yes people are that petty.

I support trans people. They experience aggression and attacks already. Quite why you'd be so convinced they'd inflict that on another person is beyond me. Your prejudice is clear.

Aah yes the most victimised people of all, they suffer far worse than women do, so very many of them are killed every year...oh wait.
It is not prejudice to want to keep women safe

People have a totally wrong set of priorities.

‘Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?’

The Tory won Hartlepool with 51.9% of the votes. Labour polled 27.9% and an Independent got just under 10%. I think that's what's called getting your head handed to you. Labour need to hit a few pubs, buy a few beers, and listen to the conversations. Advice from Dominic Cummings. Forget the echo chamber.

@YouJustFoldItIn ok I'm all ears. Labour policies that weren't intended to improve the lives of ordinary people ? Apart from selecting a candidate clearly unsuitable and trans issues where are they going
wrong ?
delusion, arrogance and condescension, and a bit of narcissism thrown in for good measure appreciate you are lapping it up, obviously making your day. I think it's pretty sad for the country to have an opposition so derided and perceived to be so devoid of any positive values don't you ?

Providing a credible opposition to the worst Prime Minister in history should not have been difficult.

Campaign for laws so companies not to rip people off and provide poor service during the pandemic (Ryanair and others)
For things such as meals for children in school holidays (thank you Marcus Rashford for campaigning on this give Labour did not)
Stand up for the UK given the Tories sold the Ulster Unionists down the river.
Stand up for the military, which yet again Tories are cutting.
Support the police who have been left to do all the Covid 19 enforcement without the courts being available and vague laws.

I am sure the list could be much much longer.

I cannot wait for whenever we finally get a Labour government again and I can spend my time complaining that Conservative voters are all horrible elitists who just don't GET IT.

They experience aggression and attacks already. Quite why you'd be so convinced they'd inflict that on another person is beyond me

Are trans people an homogenous mass who all act in the exact same way in all instances? Or are they like any other cross-section of society, and thereby encompass a range of personality types, some of whom will be aggressive, others of whom will be the 'they' you've banded together as non-confrontational?

Peregrina:

"I see Labour have gained a seat in Falmouth from the Cons."

"That gave me a small glimmer of joy. Johnson and chums don't just have to talk the talk, but walk the walk, which they have most definitely not done when they Got Brexit Done as far as the fishing industry was concerned."

A lot more students in Falmouth these days than fishermen.