Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

I am clear about why Corbyn was a disaster, because the media wanted him to be and because many in the Westminster party are Tory lite. Absolutely nothing wrong with most of his policies and a much, much nicer, kinder man than Johnson.

MmeLaraque

NOt quite the clean sweep at things though is it? They took over after being left economic disaster by Labour, then the coalition, then a majority , Brexit then covid hit.

@hamstersarse: Corbyn was the subject of a massive smear campaign. The smirk on Johnson's face when they walked in following that election was just so telling of everything he stands for. He's a nasty piece of work.

When Blair got into power in 1997 it was on a wave of optimism and hope for the country. People were proud to be British, Britpop was flourishing, the Spice Girls wore Union Jack dresses etc etc.

Does anyone get enthusiastic about Keir Starmer and his vision for Britain?

Back then there was still an uneasy alliance between metropolitan and ordinary working-class Labour, but they put their differences aside and did some of the stuff they promised e.g. building infrastructure.

The only reason current reason to vote Labour is that you're a racist/fascist if you don't, according to their acolytes on social media.

I am clear about why Corbyn was a disaster, because the media wanted him to be

^^ there we go again, until people understand the problem with this comment....labour will drive more and more people away.

[quote TatianaBis]@GlassBoxSpectacular

Because they deludedly believe the Tories actually do represent them, when actually they’re ‘arseholes’ who ‘don’t give a shit’ about them as I said.[/quote]
Yes, I get that what's you said.

But I still don't understand how you can unequivocally "know" that Tory policies are less representative of them than the other options on the ballot card ? How can you "know" what criteria any given voter used to arrive at the decision that, out of several less-than-satisfactory options, the choice that they felt to be the least-bad option is in your view categorically the 'wrong' choice for that individual voter to have made?

What specific delusions are you attributing to defecting Labour voters?

Women’s rights. 50% voters are women.

Anyway, like Trump it will all come crashing down in the end. Just hope the Tories don't fuck up the country more than they already have in the meantime.

The only reason current reason to vote Labour is that you're a racist/fascist if you don't, according to their acolytes on social media.

^^ a tricky stance to pull when Jewish Leaders put out press alerts to beg us not to vote for Corybn

[quote MmeLaraque]@hamstersarse: Corbyn was the subject of a massive smear campaign. The smirk on Johnson's face when they walked in following that election was just so telling of everything he stands for. He's a nasty piece of work.[/quote]
Again, you presume everyone is so stupid that they can't make up their own mind up about what they think of Corbyn.

It's gotta be this 'right wing press smear campaign' right? Given that the only source of information anywhere for all people is the Daily Mail.

It's such a stupid proposition that I can't even believe I am replying

I’m genuinely starting to believe that conservative HQ have an army of people posing as Labour supporters posting all over mumsnet, the guardian and social media.

It’s extraordinary how much some of these people seem to despise the very people they need votes from.

Hahahaha.......OK. So all the people leaving the party because of anti semitism are stupid too.

Yeah please keep on saying these things, it's definitely working out for you, and the party.

This is why I think there should have been a simple test regarding 'do you have a clue?' - prior to being permitted a vote in that referendum

Miljea what questions would make up this ‘simple test’?

I don't understand why Corbyn "caused damage"

The damage Corbyn did was setting the clock back for public perception of the Labour Party by about thirty years. It resurrected the Hard Left elements of the party, and brought back fears of their Bait-and-Switch tactics. It was a massive backward step.

I agree that there are huge problems within the Labour party though. I just don't agree that Corbyn and his policies was anywhere near the biggest one, for me, though I do agree he became poisonous- a few years before that though he was enjoying a good deal of popular support and I believe succeeded in moving the Overton window to the left.

Problems started with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown- Iraq, PFI, privatising the NHS, demonising the disabled, allowing unfettered immigration and being a London/Scottish elite that didn't do anywhere near enough for people in deprived former industrial areas.

Boondia, one look at Twitter shows it not necessary. It's probably all self inflicted.

Many congratulations to Hartlepool for voting for the only party capable of being in government.

Same goes for the few English councils who have changed to Tory control. Hope there will be more to come.

Many remember that during the child abuse atrocities in northern cities in Labour Council run childrens homes neither local Labour or National Party would intervene. They were too focussed on banning fox hunting.
That must be an example of 'Woke' and why it is wrong.
[There was one Labour MP who tried to highlight the issue, but he was shut down with accusations about the way he spoke to his wife]
Obviously he could not have been right about anything could he?

Prejudice against people from the North - East of England and against the North East in general, seems to be one of the last remaining socially acceptable prejudices to have.

You laugh at us, you sneer at us, you insult us. You call our towns and cities " shitholes". You wouldn't dream of doing that to other groups, after all you are good, educated people who care.

We are less than. We should know our place. We should do as we are told.

@6Helen7

Because ordinary working people don't feel that the Labour Party represent them any more. My grandfather would be turning in his grave.

But can they genuinely feel that Boris "Jobs for my friends" Johnson represents them?

I’m genuinely starting to believe that conservative HQ have an army of people posing as Labour supporters posting all over mumsnet, the guardian and social media.

You're not the only one wondering if this is a possibility.

Though I didn't ask anything of Labour canvasser at my door last week - never got the chance - and he was still rude and insulting - which was quite a feat and something I've never had before.

The media started work on Ed Milliband, remember. Oh he talks funny and can't eat a bacon sandwich, FFS. Red Ed.

In general, northerners are socially conservative, and they don't wake up every day worried about people worse off than themselves. I've lived here most of my life, and my impression is that, most people are reasonably happy with their lot. They wanted Brexit, which the Tories have done, and this government has chucked loads of money at them during covid, so why wouldn't they vote Tory?

@DogInATent

I don't understand why Corbyn "caused damage"

The damage Corbyn did was setting the clock back for public perception of the Labour Party by about thirty years. It resurrected the Hard Left elements of the party, and brought back fears of their Bait-and-Switch tactics. It was a massive backward step.

I genuinely think Labour need a neil kinnock type leader, they will never be PM but will do the groundwork to clear out some of the hard left cranks who do damage to the party. After that another leader might have a chance.

@Crankley

Many congratulations to Hartlepool for voting for the only party capable of being in government.

Same goes for the few English councils who have changed to Tory control. Hope there will be more to come.

Wow. What low expectations of government you have. Staggeringly high Covid death rates including 30,000 deaths in January, a culture of persistent lying to Parliament and the electorate, a connected culture of utter corruption when it comes to awarding government contracts. Does that really demonstrate governmental capability?